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There is an usability bug in UsabilityIdeas . When deleting a topic (by moving it to the Trash web), the user is redirected to the same topic in its new location.

This is confusing as the topic do not appear to have been "deleted".

I implemented a fix: with it the bin/rename script, if the destination web is Trash, after the move, the browser is redirected to:

  1. The parent of the topic if it had one
  2. WebHome of the origin web if not.

I suggest this patch is incorporated in the main TWiki sources.

PS: on the same subject, what is unnatural when deleting a topic is having to choose a name not conflicting with one already in Trash. A "delete" operation is a kind of "fire and forget" operation, you should not be bothered with these kind of details. Thus a way to add automatically a numeric suffix (incremented till there is room) to the new topic name would be nice...

-- ColasNahaboo - 31 Mar 2003

I agree with this wholeheartedly! This is the kind of non-standard and unintuitive implementation of a absolutely basic operation that really hurts TWiki's usability for new and non-technical users. As long as we're considering revamping the delete operation, I would propose going a step further and listing it separately within the "More" template rather than including (or hiding) it under the Rename/move operation. And I would support having the actual workings of where it goes, etc. be mostly invisible to the causual user.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 31 Mar 2003

Yup, exactly. A delete operation is not a move for the user (even if it is one for the engine). I would add also that the delete operation sould not propose to "modify the links pointing to the topic", as it makes no sens of pointing to something in Trash...

-- ColasNahaboo - 31 Mar 2003

I've changed this to FeatureEnhancementRequest. I suggest the following change:

  • a delete option (using rename script) in more that send to the Trash folder (actual folder possibly to be defined in TWiki.cfg or TWikiPreferences
  • an option to rename that doesn't shows links that will be broken, but doesn't offer to change them - used by above delete option
  • a pick non conflicting name option - again used by above delete option.

I must admit that the original move to Trash was just done as part of the move topic work. Loss of memory when renaming or deleting a page worries people. I have got a change that leaves behind a forwarding topic. I'll look to dealing with delete differently in this.

-- JohnTalintyre - 01 Apr 2003

The suggestions sound good. As a first step, I added Colas patch to TWikiAlphaRelease and TWiki.org. Thanks Colas!

Reclassified topic as FeatureUnderConstruction for pending stuff.

-- PeterThoeny - 11 Apr 2003

There is one issue with the latest change: It is not aware of attachments. When you delete an attachment you end up in WebHome of the originating web instead of the topic where you deleted the attachment.

-- PeterThoeny - 17 Apr 2003

Fixed above mentioned issue: Deleting an attachment will redirect to the old topic. In TWikiAlphaRelease and TWiki.org.

-- PeterThoeny - 03 May 2003

As JohnTalintyre mentioned earlier, people are afraid of deleting pages(same with content). I always tell them, that they can't destroy anything with TWiki and no content gets lost, because of diffs and the trash-web. Now a Delete option will be in the next release... It would be much better if this delete option would named "move to trash" or simply "trash" instead, what is more true also by the real implementation.

-- AndreUlrich - 18 Aug 2003

... or call it "Send to the Recycle Bin" as Windows puts it smile

You make a strong point Andre, naming is an important issue. Move to Trash would be better in this case. On the "More edit options" page there can be a link "View deleted pages" that links to the Trash web.

-- ArthurClemens - 18 Aug 2003

Another location you could be directed to after a delete would be the topic itself, the original location, so that you can see that it has been deleted and if it can be determined where the topic went then it could say when and by whom and provide a link/button to undelete it.

  • This was the default behaviour of twiki. But the problem with this is that you need to have a mental model of this behaviour in your head, otherwise it is like a jump out of the blue and you will have a hard time finding your way back.
    • Finding your was back? You never left, your at the same topic, it just doesn't exist any more. -- SH - 05 Sep 2003
      • But the whole page around the topic is changed: different colors, different links... -- AC - 05 Sep 2003
        • No no no. If you delete MyTopic, It should leave you at the "This topic does not yet exist page" for MyTopic, not take you to MyTopic. So you can see that the topic is no longer there. Doesn't that sound like a better solution? -- SH - 05 Sep 2003

It would also be nice if this page also listed dead links to the topics so that you can easily go back and fix them after you have trashed or moved a topic.

  • The More page can have a link to the Trash web. There you have a list of all (deleted) topics.
  • There is a problem getting dead links:
    • If all links are updated when you delete a page, they point to Trash.YourTopic. So they are not really 'dead links'.
      • I don't think that's the best default behavour, better to have dead links. -- SH - 05 Sep 2003
        • I believe so too, see my proposal in TrashButton. But it is possible to choose to update links (by not choosing the recommended option). -- AC - 05 Sep 2003
          • If TrashButton is implemented then moving with renaming links should not be able to move to the trash web. Although perhaps Trash and change links to an existing topic would be a useful feature? -- SH - 05 Sep 2003

    • If links are not updated, the links still point to Yourweb.YourTopic, but that topic does not exist anymore. The new topic in Trash cannot link to these pages...
      • I'm not talking about the Trash page linking to the the dead link topics. I mean that a "This topic does not exist yet" page should show dead links to the topic like the move page shows existing links before a move. I know there's the Ref-By link, perhaps it would make sense to call that "Dead Links" if the topic doesn't exist? -- SH - 05 Sep 2003

-- SamHasler - 04-05 Sep 2003, -- ArthurClemens - 04-05 Sep 2003

Topic attachments
I Attachment History Action Size Date Who Comment
Unknown file formatpatch DeleteTopicDoNotRedirectToNewPlace.patch r1 manage 1.0 K 2003-03-31 - 14:05 ColasNahaboo patch to bin/rename of Feb 2003 release
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Topic revision: r15 - 2003-09-05 - SamHasler
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