Session Start: Tue Jan 02 22:03:56 2007 Session Ident: #twiki_edinburgh [22:03] * Now talking in #twiki_edinburgh [22:03] * Topic is 'http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EdinburghReleaseMeeting2007x01x02' [22:03] * Set by SvenDowideit_ on Tue Jan 02 21:24:59 [22:04] Good evening. Sorry I am a little late [22:04] hi kenneth! [22:04] we are a small group today [22:04] lets give it a few more minutes [22:05] (21:03:25) PeterThoeny: any special drink on new years in england and scotland? - yep, it's called "alcohol". [22:05] we're not fussy what we mix it with ;-) [22:06] :-) [22:06] in my homtown in switzerland there is a drink called roeteli (oe is o umlaut) [22:07] a liquor made from apple, pears, plums with spices [22:07] called so for the color red [22:09] is sven here, or just the log? [22:09] probably just the log [22:09] he joined 45 min ago [22:10] +10 min, i guess we should start [22:11] i volunteer to do the facilitation [22:11] And I am on the minutes already [22:11] nice [22:11] anything to add to the minutes? [22:11] aka agenda items? [22:11] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EdinburghReleaseMeeting2007x01x02 [22:12] CDot did you want to discuss the extra internal functions? [22:12] I guess so. [22:13] You have the bug item number handy? [22:14] no, on reflection, we need to drop it. It's too complex to explain, and the code isn't mature enough. [22:14] I withdraw the proposal. [22:14] even before I make it ;-) [22:14] would that be for 4.1 release? [22:14] OK. There is always next release. 4.1.1 is probably not that far out. [22:14] right. [22:15] ok, so original agenda: [22:15] 1. Review Previous Action Items [22:15] 2. Review Bug Fix Status of TWiki 4.1 [22:15] 3. TWiki 4.1 Release Coordination [22:15] ---+ 1. Review Previous Action Items [22:15] I have updated the action list from last meeting with what has been done with a %Y% [22:15] yes, thanks [22:15] So refresh your browser [22:15] all done except "Skin experts. Give Thomas final feedback on TemplatePathBuginTWiki4x00 so he can finish the docs" [22:16] Just checked. The stuff for 4.1 has been done. [22:16] if i recall correctly, that was just doc update in the code? [22:16] And there is an enhancement that we have agreed to postpone till after 4.1 [22:16] ok, that one is done too :-) [22:16] on antonio & translations, he is on top of it [22:17] i exchanged e-mail today [22:17] Yes. Going very well. [22:17] he is waiting for chinese translation [22:17] current status at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiTranslationStatus [22:18] so cs, es, ru, and 2 x chinese are not yet 100% [22:18] we should be ok in time [22:18] ---+ 2. Review Bug Fix Status of TWiki 4.1 [22:18] YOU has a open issue maybe [22:18] Skin/Javascripts changed so initial letter for renaming and creation changes first letter to uppercase. for Classic skin [22:19] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/AllOutStandingItems?class=Engine%7CDocumentation&=&sortcol=3;table=1;up=1#sorted_table [22:19] Recommend we discard 3314. There is no bug there that I can see. [22:19] Arthur did Pattern but I am not sure I saw a checkin for Classic skin. [22:19] you=pth? [22:19] I am still at Review previous [22:19] And YOU = Peter [22:19] ok [22:20] ah, yes, i missed that [22:20] ok, i will look into this [22:21] on prev a.i., harald, what is the status on Bugs:Item2837 ? [22:21] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item2837 [22:21] Waiting for Release [22:21] peter, that search you linked isn't good enough; need to look at bugs in shipped extensions as well. [22:21] i see it's "waiting for release", so done [22:22] PTh: Yes, I think it is done. [22:22] cdot: this is simply the "items by urgency" link in the sidebar [22:23] ok, that needs to be corrected then. For now, better use the AllOustandingItems page with no params. [22:23] so thta link should include the shipped extensions as well [22:23] it doesn't. it's class=Engine&Documentation [22:24] In AllOustandingItems be careful. The Release blockers missed all the waiting for feedback. [22:24] ok, then lets scan over the waiting for feedback... [22:24] 3314 was the only one in that set. [22:24] Yes. Item3314 Let redirectto read template parameter [22:25] (21:19:38) CDot: Recommend we discard 3314. There is no bug there that I can see. [22:25] it should not be a blocker IMHO [22:25] From the text it appears so. [22:26] ah, this looks like a small enh to me: let the redirectto get carried over from edit to preview to save [22:26] this is not a release blocker [22:26] a nice to have though [22:26] No. Agree [22:26] Discard or declassify to enhancement? [22:27] i changed it to "normal" prio [22:27] Next is Item3159 Twisty tags are removed by beforeCommonTagsHandler [22:27] if arthur has the time to do that for 4.1 then fine [22:27] TwistyPlugin is also default now. [22:28] No that it enhancement. Forget it [22:29] Then next item to discuss is: Item3261 Literal search on all webs does not work [22:29] I can reproduce that [22:30] So can I [22:30] It has not been analysed yet, so it's very hard to comment. [22:30] let me handle that [22:30] i already know where the issue is [22:30] My guess is that it is not a difficult one. [22:30] Regex search works. It is only literal that does not. [22:30] was introduced by the regex filter-in change [22:30] Ok, so I can quit by debugger session again :-) [22:31] Item3370, where do we stand on the rel notes? [22:32] and history topic? [22:32] TWO parts. [22:32] 1. The release note itself. I only need to add the complete list of bugs. [22:32] headlines have been updated so it is a quick and easy task. [22:32] 2. The TwikiHistory. I have written a proposal but without identifying WHO did what. [22:33] And propose we do NOT try to create this. [22:33] why not? [22:33] Huge effort for little payback. [22:33] attribution is important [22:33] i can look into this [22:34] what shall we do with the old release notes topic? [22:34] of twiki 4.0 [22:34] Instead I propose that CDot makes a HallOfFame table that shows the number of contributions to core, and default plugins and translations since 4.0.0 [22:34] I would keep the 4.0 release note in the distribution. It contains very good info for Cairo updaters [22:36] don't wait for that, please! [22:36] * CDot has a *very* busy month ahead [22:36] the number of contributions to core and def plugins does not account for all the work done on twiki.org [22:37] if hall of fame then it should be done properly for each release back to old releases, and including twiki.org contribs [22:37] If you think you can create a history of the contributions with names this week then fine. But risk is that you will forget some. [22:37] we had the same risk in the prev releases [22:38] i will do my best [22:38] OK. You have the action item. I take care of the Release Note bug table. [22:38] related, we need to update the AUTHORS file [22:38] make sure we add new ones [22:39] how will you know? [22:39] i think that can be derived from the 4.1 history list [22:39] so, also an a.i for me [22:40] Yep. [22:41] Next item is an admin task. [22:41] Item3371 Walkthrough of all default plugins to ensure latest version of default plugins are on TWiki.org [22:41] I would assume almost all default plugins needs a new build and upload since there has been a bug in the installer. [22:42] spreadsheetplugin is ok since it does not upload with the build contrib [22:42] I planned to start this walkthrough. [22:42] ok, thanks [22:43] last item 2553 (doc work) will be closed when ready [22:43] Yes. I think Docs are pretty OK this time. [22:43] Lavr: it is easy to do a build and upload of all the default plugins from the command line. That will refresh all the installers. [22:43] on "survivable bugs" there are 79 now, actually including all extensions [22:45] or 63 relevant to the release [22:45] Yes. And about 20-30 are extensions that are non default. [22:45] That many? I would have guessed 50 [22:45] no, only about 15 [22:46] 63 is quite a high number [22:47] running report only on "engine" we have 10 low and 39 normal [22:47] Yes. Many new were raised recently. When I went through the normal/low in December I started from the oldest. [22:48] There are many of the bugs that are a little exotic once you really go into them. [22:49] anyone wants to highlight a bug in the survivavle list? [22:49] Note for the future. Suggest we add a new field to the bug DB to assist prioritisation. "Usability Impact", accept High, Med, Low, reflects importance to end user experience. [22:50] isn't that how the priority should be applied in the first place? [22:50] no. A Requirement may have 0 usability impact [22:50] but still be a requirement [22:51] and enhancement may have high usabuility impact [22:51] Example. Todays example of the CGI CPAN version has high impact on Admin and zero on the enduser once the admin has upgraded. [22:51] 3307 has been pointed out to me several times [22:51] it has high usability impact [22:52] http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item3307 [22:52] i classify this as high usability as well since if twiki does not survive the wiki eval period... [22:53] If you are in Wiki eval period then configure should tell you to upgrade to 3.05 [22:53] i prefer to document the priority to set it from a customers perspective, not programmers perspective [22:54] from this perspective 3307 would be an urgent one [22:54] this is why I am proposing the field. [22:55] HaraldJoerg: I agree. I don't see the value in duplicating code in cpan. [22:56] any other bug items we should discuss? [22:56] I think the generic answer is that it is still desirable to close more Normal bugs if possible. But not with new risky code. [22:57] yes, that is the right approach [22:57] remaining bugs should be fixed only if low risk in code [22:57] So 3307 would be easy - it is just a change in a topic [22:58] i set 3307 to urgent because that's what it is from the customer perspective [22:58] 3307 is *not* easy to fix [22:58] I suggest to add a line to TWiki.WebHome which refers to % WIKIVERSION% [22:58] 3307 is about version in CONFIGURE only. We already have the version pretty easy to find on TWiki/WebHome [22:58] it is delicate [22:59] yes, it can be solved simply by hardcoding in text (not so good) or by code change (better) [22:59] sorry, hardcoding is not an acceptable solution to me. It just creates more problems for the release manager. [23:00] here is a low hanging fruit version: link to a twiki.org topic that has a table of svn numbers and twiki version number [23:00] but it can be solved, i am sure. [23:00] The typical problem case is that a problem reporter does not know which version of TWiki he runs. [23:00] yes, Peter, that is a *good* idea [23:00] That does not sound like an admin running configure. [23:00] PeterThoeny: That has been done recently in Support web [23:01] there is already one, generated dynamically for 4.0: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiRelease04x00 [23:02] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiProductionRelease lists all production releases [23:02] but only the latest one of each release [23:02] it is easy to add a new table to it that lists all releases with the numbers [23:02] TWiki/WebHome shows it. And still they do ask where to find it. [23:02] so lets usee that one to link to [23:04] In configure we have: If your TWiki site is already working, continue to browse to the TWiki Reference Manual. [23:04] Maybe just change this to point to TWiki/WebHome which may be a better newbie starting point anyway [23:04] that is a good point [23:05] also for admins that go back to configure after an install it is more naturall to return to the twiki home [23:05] after a configure [23:05] I recent extended the version info on WebHome to say: This site is running TWiki version TWiki-4.1, Tue, 02 Jan 2007, build 12410, Plugin API version 1.11 [23:05] that is excellent [23:05] So we have all we need there. [23:05] where is TWiki-4.1 pulled from? [23:06] Hardcoded in TWiki.pm [23:06] It should actually say 4.1.0 [23:06] hm, that is not so good since someone might update just lib and bin [23:06] the proper way is to pull that from the code [23:07] It is from the code. Not in the topic. [23:07] ah, ok, good [23:07] This site is running TWiki version *%WIKIVERSION%*, Plugin API version *%PLUGINVERSION{}%* [23:07] sorry, i misread before [23:09] So we agree to simply change the Configure link from reference manual to WebHome? [23:09] Sounds good to me [23:09] That is within my skill level :-) [23:09] :-) :-) [23:12] peter, the svn build no comes from twiki.pm.It is updated by the automatic build script when a release is named. It is unreliable for unnamed releases, but should always be corrected for full releases. [23:12] ^corrected^correct [23:13] I always have the problem with this. I have often been in a race to guess the next SVN rev before someone else check in [23:14] But with named release I guess it is automatic. [23:14] yup. [23:14] locking the repository is more trouble than it's worth, IMHO [23:15] though it would be nice to have a way to access the "right now" highest svn rev number. [23:15] you can do it with svnlook, but not with svn IIRC [23:15] Yeah. For betas etc it is not a real issue. It is with plugins the problem is and there I really do not like when people only use the SVN rev. A real rev tells more. So I use both rev svn rev and date in change history when I update a plugin. [23:16] * peterthoeny__ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:16] I guess it is time to continue to 3. TWiki 4.1 Release Coordination - agree? [23:16] sorry, internet connection and phone are dead [23:16] i am not on an unsecured wireless network of a neighbor [23:17] s/not/now/ [23:17] :-) [23:17] i missed some stuff, so agenda item 3? [23:17] I suggest to continue to 3 [23:17] ok [23:18] two topics: release date; action items [23:18] Proposed date: Sunday the 7th in the evening Europen time. [23:18] action items based on checklist [23:19] or one week later? [23:19] gotta go; goodnight all! [23:19] * CDot has left #twiki_edinburgh [23:19] a release is a lot of work on twiki.org [23:20] also for pr [23:20] Also OK for me. [23:20] shall we release on 2007-01-14? [23:21] also to give more time for bug fixing? [23:21] Let me just scan the checklist [23:22] hmm, wondering why the twikiadvocacy update is missing in this list [23:22] i need to update the checklist [23:24] When I look at the list - I think all the stuff before upload is fully under control. The RC builds when 100% smooth. [23:24] part of release preparation is to update advocay material, prepare press release, prepare list of places to send press release [23:24] i will update that list [23:24] and i will focus on the pr side [23:25] since most developers prefer to stay with the code [23:25] Do I make an RC3 for the 7th? [23:25] if not too much work it would help [23:25] so that we have a more stable release to test on [23:26] No problem at all. It is easy now that I have the routine. [23:26] * SvenDowideit_ has quit IRC (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [23:27] If we want to have something out of the extra week - with only one real open release blocker bug we should consider adding around 10 nice to have Normal bugs to be fixed on a list. [23:27] * PeterThoeny has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [23:27] * SvenDowideit_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:27] * SvenDowideit_ has quit IRC (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [23:28] * SvenDowideit_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:28] * PeterThoeny has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:28] * PeterThoeny is now known as peterthoeny_ [23:30] In case it was lost I repeat [23:30] If we want to have something out of the extra week - with only one real open release blocker bug we should consider adding around 10 nice to have Normal bugs to be fixed on a list. [23:30] * peterthoeny_ has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [23:31] * peterthoeny_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:31] * peterthoeny_ is now known as PeterThoeny [23:31] * PeterThoeny is now known as peterthoeny [23:32] the neighbors link dropped.. [23:32] back on my network [23:32] sorry about that [23:33] * SvenDowideit_ has quit IRC (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [23:33] who will work on the release documentation update? [23:33] on twiki.org? [23:33] * SvenDowideit_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:34] anybody here still? [23:34] yes. [23:35] ok [23:35] Well. you and I normally share that task pretty well. [23:35] i guess we should decide on release details next meeting? [23:35] yes, we can update that together [23:35] so are we done with the meeting? [23:36] I ran the suite in the background. VariableTests fail. I suspect 12410 needs an update in VariableTests. [23:36] I had a proposal while you were disconnected. [23:36] (But ok, we seem to be done with the meeting, I can update the test cases) [23:36] Repeat: If we want to have something out of the extra week - with only one real open release blocker bug we should consider adding around 10 nice to have Normal bugs to be fixed on a list. [23:36] shall we call a meeting shortly before the release? [23:37] lavr: good idea [23:37] manually create the list? or reprioritize existing ones? [23:37] I am adding my first 2-3 to the meeting minutes right now. [23:38] ok, so lets scan over http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/AllOutStandingItems to see which ones would be noice to have fixed [23:39] for completeness: [23:39] Item3314 Let redirectto read template parameter [23:40] * Bugs:Item3048 - try maybe to find a workaround. I would not try to recode CGI but maybe there is another workaround. [23:40] * Bugs:Item3341 - fix seems ready to integrate [23:40] * Bugs:Item3367 - I think normal users will see this and it could be an easy thing to fix [23:40] * Bugs:Item3364 - Been wondering about this one myself [23:40] Item3161 Usability: Attachment table default sort order [23:40] 3161 the problem may be do we agree on spec? [23:42] 3304 can be closed, doing now... [23:43] * SvenDowideit_ has quit IRC (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [23:43] * SvenDowideit_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:44] Item3212 Rcs Lite can't recover from damaged version histories [23:44] would be nice to have fixed [23:46] i definitely would like this fixed: [23:46] Item3105 Usability: Missleading "Invalid Activation Code" error message [23:47] * peterthoeny__ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [23:47] i get several e-mails a week on twiki.org about that [23:48] this is is a simple doc fix: [23:48] Item3053 ChangePassword mistakenly says you need to close the browser [23:49] this seems an easy fix: [23:49] Item2985 SEARCH summary eats escaped [[...]] links [23:50] this has usability impact: [23:50] Item2650 TWikiForms checkbox values not stored in proper order [23:50] probably caused by using a hash instead of an array [23:52] ok, that's it for my wish list [23:52] when shall we have the next meeting? [23:53] would fri 2007-01-12 work? [23:53] Hmm. I try to keep Friday and Saturday evenings available for SWMBO [23:54] or meet in two weeks on 01-14 and release on tue 01-15? [23:54] No I want a full Sunday to do the release work nice and easy and without stress. [23:55] i prefer to have one more meeting before the release [23:55] But I plan to be on IRC while I build. How about next Monday? And then meet during the release weekend ad hoc. [23:55] how about thu 01-11? [23:56] * SvenDowideit_ has quit IRC (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [23:56] I think 11th is OK. 9th and 10th not. [23:56] ok, next monday works for me too [23:56] * SvenDowideit_ has joined #twiki_edinburgh [23:56] which one is better, mon or thu? [23:56] I think I am home alone Monday. Which makes it perfect then [23:57] ok, lets meet in a week [23:57] for status update [23:57] should be a short meeting [23:57] Yes. Let us target a less than 1 hour meeting. [23:57] lets close this meeting officially [23:57] :-) Session Time: Wed Jan 03 00:00:00 2007 [00:01] I have saved the minutes with the top candidates from the two of us. I continue to edit the minutes. I can see there was a merge so someone has saved [00:01] Someone already missed the minutes. [00:02] They are getting impatient about the release :-) [00:02] Yes. [00:03] :-)