Date: August 29, 2011 11:09: 08 AM PDT Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2011x08x29.txt [09:50am] You rejoined the room. [10:04am] GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room. [10:04am] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter [10:06am] dipu_twiki joined the chat room. [10:08am] GeorgeTrubisky_ joined the chat room. [10:11am] GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:11am] GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room. [10:11am] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter [10:12am] GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. (Client Quit) [10:12am] dipu_twiki: Hi Peter [10:12am] GeorgeTrubisky_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:12am] PeterThoeny: hi george [10:12am] PeterThoeny: hi dipu [10:13am] PeterThoeny: george seems to have connectivity issue [10:14am] GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room. [10:14am] PeterThoeny: hi george [10:14am] PeterThoeny: connectivity issue? [10:14am] dipu_twiki: strange! I seem to have better connectivity located half way acround the globe! [10:14am] GeorgeTrubisky_ joined the chat room. [10:15am] PeterThoeny: yea, george is local in northern california [10:15am] dipu_twiki: i thought he was in the UK [10:16am] PeterThoeny: dipu, where are you now? [10:16am] dipu_twiki: in India [10:17am] PeterThoeny: ah [10:17am] PeterThoeny: so, late for you [10:17am] PeterThoeny: quick update: [10:17am] dipu_twiki: a bit, but not the first time I have stayed up to talk to the US [10:17am] PeterThoeny: we released twiki-5.1 last weekend (thank you george!!) [10:17am] PeterThoeny: i mean, a week ago [10:18am] dipu_twiki: congratulations, and thanks George [10:18am] GeorgeTrubisky__ joined the chat room. [10:18am] GeorgeTrubisky__: hello? [10:18am] GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:18am] GeorgeTrubisky__ left the chat room. (Client Quit) [10:18am] PeterThoeny: over the last weekend (yesterday) i prepared press release and blog to announce [10:18am] PeterThoeny: today we have official announce of new release [10:19am] GeorgeTrubisky_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:19am] PeterThoeny: hi GeorgeTrubisky__ [10:19am] PeterThoeny: connectivity issue? [10:19am] dipu_twiki: yes, i read that in your email - thanks for the tip [10:20am] PeterThoeny: we got some tweets [10:20am] PeterThoeny: hopefully we get noticed by bloggers and the press [10:20am] GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room. [10:20am] dipu_twiki: anything in 5.1 that should affect us? [10:21am] GeorgeTrubisky: hello? [10:21am] PeterThoeny: i sent out over 100 individual e-mails to bloggers, analysts and press [10:21am] PeterThoeny: hi GeorgeTrubisky, can you see this? [10:21am] GeorgeTrubisky: Yes! [10:22am] dipu_twiki: we havent had much success in getting 5.0 running on Windows yet - hopefully 5.1 will solve that problem? [10:22am] GeorgeTrubisky: I've been on since the start of meeting [10:22am] PeterThoeny: good you are here GeorgeTrubisky [10:23am] GeorgeTrubisky: Sorry, was here to start, but my irc chat messages kept timing out [10:23am] PeterThoeny: dipu_twiki: ah, again trying to get twiki on windows? did the vmware build not work out? [10:24am] dipu_twiki: yes it did - we are running fine on Ubuntu and CentOS [10:24am] dipu_twiki: but cant upgrade our Windows release [10:25am] dipu_twiki: and noticed some differences in behavior too [10:25am] PeterThoeny: please file bug reports if you find issues on windows [10:25am] PeterThoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2011x08x29 [10:25am] PeterThoeny: 1. TWiki-5.1 Release Post Mortem [10:25am] PeterThoeny: 2. Release Focus of Jerusalem Release [10:25am] PeterThoeny: 3. Miscellaneous [10:26am] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. TWiki-5.1 Release Post Mortem [10:26am] dipu_twiki: will do [10:26am] PeterThoeny: george, we spent quite some time to do the release [10:26am] PeterThoeny: due to rebuilding a few times [10:26am] GeorgeTrubisky: build script need several incremental improvements [10:27am] PeterThoeny: what can we improve to make the build more efficient? [10:27am] GeorgeTrubisky: needs to fail if it a core plugin cannot be built [10:27am] PeterThoeny: yes, we can list items to improve on the build script [10:28am] PeterThoeny: yes, one core plugin had a file listed in manifest that was not in svn [10:28am] PeterThoeny: for this case the build should stop and show the error [10:28am] GeorgeTrubisky: the build that is run automatically when commit to trunk svn, it is different than the one for building a release? [10:29am] PeterThoeny: it took us some debug cycles to figure out the isse [10:29am] PeterThoeny: the reason for the difference: [10:30am] PeterThoeny: i created the plugin, so i had all required files in my local svn trunk checkout [10:30am] PeterThoeny: when i built the plugin from by local trunk all looked ok because all files where there [10:30am] PeterThoeny: but if anyone else tries to build that plugin from checkout it would not work [10:31am] dipu_twiki: a new plugin? [10:31am] GeorgeTrubisky: I'm going to work on some improvements for the build script.  Should I open bug reports or one enhancement request? [10:31am] PeterThoeny: yes, the backuprestoreplugin [10:31am] PeterThoeny: build stuff is internal stuff, so no formal enhancement request needed [10:32am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok [10:32am] PeterThoeny: simply a bug item to track the enhancement is fine [10:32am] PeterThoeny: what else can we improve on build? [10:32am] dipu_twiki: could it affect other plugin checkins too? if the manifest changes? [10:33am] GeorgeTrubisky: I will use the bug item to detail the changes to the build script. [10:33am] PeterThoeny: any plugin were manifest and required files is out of sync has build issues [10:34am] PeterThoeny: i think the problem is that the core build simply ignores the build status (success/fail) of the plugins [10:34am] PeterThoeny: other area of improvement: [10:35am] PeterThoeny: need proper error message if release tag has no .txt,v files [10:35am] PeterThoeny: currently, build creates the package but all topics have no history [10:36am] PeterThoeny: anything else we can improve? [10:36am] GeorgeTrubisky: yes [10:36am] PeterThoeny: process improvements? [10:36am] GeorgeTrubisky: another is the topic metadata [10:36am] GeorgeTrubisky: we have a script for fixtopicmeta [10:37am] PeterThoeny: and? [10:37am] GeorgeTrubisky: our process however has no check to insure topic metadata is "fixed" prior to build [10:38am] GeorgeTrubisky: manually we check [10:39am] PeterThoeny: ah, yes [10:39am] GeorgeTrubisky: and even when we check, we still miss some...the problem we had with one of the topics (can't remember which one) [10:39am] PeterThoeny: not sure hoe best to address this [10:40am] PeterThoeny: we could do an actual diff of the old and new topic, both with stripped meta info line before diff [10:41am] GeorgeTrubisky: the last build issue we were struggling with....got resolved when the metadata was fixed.  Why didn't the grep find it? [10:41am] GeorgeTrubisky: grep '%META: TOPICINFO{' */*.txt | grep -v TestCases | grep -v 'author="TWikiContributor".*version="\$Rev' [10:41am] PeterThoeny: or we could just remind developers to always use fixtopicmeta, regardless if using browser to edit or vi [10:42am] PeterThoeny: because the topic meta had the proper "TWikiContributor", but with old timestamp [10:43am] PeterThoeny: e.g. topic content was updated, but timestamp was not [10:43am] GeorgeTrubisky: how could we check for an old timestamp? [10:43am] PeterThoeny: how: what i mentioned before with diff [10:44am] PeterThoeny: time check: + 44 min, 16 min to go [10:44am] GeorgeTrubisky: so if the diff showed a difference, that is how one would know about the timestamp? [10:44am] PeterThoeny: btw, george and dipu, did you already meet, virtually? [10:45am] GeorgeTrubisky: don't think so [10:45am] dipu_twiki: virtually, yes [10:45am] GeorgeTrubisky: did we?  my apologies [10:45am] dipu_twiki: when George gave me permission to checkin [10:45am] GeorgeTrubisky: yes! [10:45am] PeterThoeny: yes, that is how we could check if the content actually changed, thus we could determine an incorrect timestamp [10:46am] PeterThoeny: again, this is kind of involved, may be easier just to remind developers to _always_ use fixtopicmeta [10:46am] GeorgeTrubisky: yeah [10:47am] dipu_twiki: apologies for bringing this up, but is there a policy about ensuring compatibility between versions? [10:47am] dipu_twiki: for instance, we found that the upload script behavior had changed between 4 and 5 [10:48am] PeterThoeny: yes, we ask developers to keep code content compatible [10:48am] dipu_twiki: so the change was unintended? [10:48am] PeterThoeny: e.g. current twiki should always be able to read old content [10:48am] PeterThoeny: no, the issue we discussed was not compatibility issue [10:49am] dipu_twiki: file upload is normally not a very used feature - especially, if one is using obscure functionality [10:49am] PeterThoeny: issue was that a topic change i did not show up in the release [10:50am] PeterThoeny: due to the build script assuming that there was no change because i forgot to fix the timestamp on the topic (operator error on my side) [10:50am] dipu_twiki: i was referring to a problem that we found in our lab - nothing to do with the problem you were discussing [10:50am] PeterThoeny: ah [10:51am] dipu_twiki: but it brings up an interesting issue about the intent regarding compability [10:51am] dipu_twiki: since Twiki is not generally known as an application API [10:51am] dipu_twiki: but perhaps that is a topic for another day [10:52am] PeterThoeny: compatibility is in our mission, http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMission [10:52am] dipu_twiki: ahhh, then I will file a bug [10:52am] PeterThoeny: yes please do [10:52am] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Release Focus of Jerusalem Release [10:52am] dipu_twiki: thanks for clarifying [10:53am] PeterThoeny: i was hoping to get more people discuss the release focus [10:53am] PeterThoeny: http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseFocus [10:53am] dipu_twiki: I was reading through the roadmap today [10:54am] dipu_twiki: and on the usability front, i was wondering if there was any chance we could squeeze in a multi-level pull-down meny support [10:54am] PeterThoeny: 2. weeks ago we had a brainstorming session together with george, imazu-san from japan and others [10:55am] dipu_twiki: sorry, i couldn't join [10:55am] PeterThoeny: yes, multi-level pulldown would be nice [10:56am] dipu_twiki: my personal wish would be to develop twiki more as a serious application platform [10:56am] PeterThoeny: you can file a request at http: //develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/TopMenuSkin [10:56am] dipu_twiki: maybe in a post-Jerusalem release [10:56am] dipu_twiki: OK, shall do [10:57am] PeterThoeny: back to release focus, what items in brainstorming do you think is important for the twiki project? [10:58am] PeterThoeny: any other items that are not in brainstorming at http: //twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseFocus ? [10:58am] GeorgeTrubisky: peter and dipu, I have a hard stop at the top of the hour. ttyl [10:58am] PeterThoeny: imho, "Micro-blogging / activity streams: User generated and apps generated" is an important new feature [10:59am] PeterThoeny: thanks george! [10:59am] GeorgeTrubisky: please post the chat notes as usual.  Thanks [10:59am] GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. [10:59am] dipu_twiki: bye George [11:00am] dipu_twiki: I do like the Twiki Apps packaging [11:01am] dipu_twiki: currently, we are inventing our own packaging - it would be nice to publish the free version as a standard Twiki app package [11:02am] PeterThoeny: yes, i like that idea too [11:02am] dipu_twiki: Also like the "multiple instances of apps" - though I am just guessing at its meaning [11:03am] PeterThoeny: we need more open source developers to implement the many ideas we have : -0 [11:03am] dipu_twiki: I hear that [11:03am] dipu_twiki: I am trying to build up enthusiasm in India for TWiki as a platform [11:03am] PeterThoeny: thanks dipu, appreciated! [11:04am] dipu_twiki: did Jit show you my recommendation for the Presidency University IT infratsructure? [11:05am] PeterThoeny: he briefly mentioned [11:05am] PeterThoeny: time check: +55 min [11:05am] PeterThoeny: i have to leave now [11:05am] dipu_twiki: OK -have a great day Peter [11:05am] PeterThoeny: customer visit, and need to prepare a bit [11:05am] dipu_twiki: good luck [11:06am] PeterThoeny: thanks for stopping by dipu! [11:06am] PeterThoeny: ttyl [11:06am] dipu_twiki: pleasure [11:06am] dipu_twiki: bye