Date: November 8, 2012 11:19:17 PM PST Subject: JerusalemMeetingLog2012x11x09.txt [02:24am] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server. [10:39am] You rejoined the room. [12:04am] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server. [07:30am] You rejoined the room. [07:52am] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server. [08:56am] You rejoined the room. [08:56am]gibson.freenode.net:[freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp [09:13am] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server. [5:41pm] You rejoined the room. [8:58pm] HideyoImazu joined the chat room. [9:00pm] MahiroAndo joined the chat room. [9:00pm]PeterThoeny:hi hideyo-san! [9:01pm]HideyoImazu:hi Peter! [9:01pm]PeterThoeny:hi mahiro-san [9:01pm]MahiroAndo:hello [9:01pm]HideyoImazu:Yaojun cannot make it today [9:01pm]PeterThoeny:ok [9:02pm]PeterThoeny:i just finished a nice raclette dinner with friends at home [9:02pm]PeterThoeny:this is a swiss style social dinner [9:02pm]PeterThoeny:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raclette [9:02pm]PeterThoeny:did you know that swiss invented social media? [9:02pm]PeterThoeny:just kidding [9:03pm]PeterThoeny:but fondue and raclette are very social [9:03pm]MahiroAndo:looks nice [9:03pm]HideyoImazu:there are social dishes at varioius places in the world [9:04pm]HideyoImazu:fondue is well known. but i didn't know raclette. [9:05pm]PeterThoeny:raclette is nice [9:05pm]HideyoImazu:you need a raclette grill? [9:06pm]PeterThoeny:the first picture is restaurant style [9:06pm]PeterThoeny:family style is different [9:07pm]PeterThoeny:for home use it's table grill style like at [9:07pm]PeterThoeny:http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Articles/Entertaining-Holidays-651/raclette.aspx [9:08pm]PeterThoeny:top grill is for vegetables and sausages, bottom is for small pans with raclette cheese [9:08pm]PeterThoeny:so right now i am full with raclette cheese, vegetable, sausages and plenty of chardonnay [9:08pm]PeterThoeny::-0 [9:08pm]PeterThoeny: [9:09pm]PeterThoeny:so the usa changed from summer savings time to regular time [9:09pm]PeterThoeny:ok for japan with 1 hour difference? [9:10pm]HideyoImazu:yes [9:10pm]HideyoImazu:it's 2 p.m. in Tokyo 1 p.m. in Shanghai [9:10pm]PeterThoeny:note sure if anybody else is joining today [9:10pm]HideyoImazu:so it's better for us [9:10pm]PeterThoeny:shall we start? [9:10pm]HideyoImazu:sure [9:10pm]PeterThoeny:ok [9:10pm]PeterThoeny:more time for sushi! [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:i envy you [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:proposed minutes at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/JerusalemReleaseMeeting2012x11x09 [9:11pm]HideyoImazu:weather is much nicer on your side [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:3. Extensions [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:4. Miscellaneous [9:11pm]PeterThoeny:anything to add? [9:12pm]PeterThoeny:---++ 1. Feature Requests for Jerusalem Release [9:12pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals [9:13pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddCreatedateAndEncodeToSEARCH [9:13pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Add createdate and encode to SEARCH [9:14pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:14pm]PeterThoeny:7 days ago [9:14pm]PeterThoeny:by 7 days review accepted now [9:14pm]HideyoImazu:ok [9:14pm]MahiroAndo:ok [9:14pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddEncodeNewlineAllowanytimeToVarINCLUDE [9:15pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Add encode, newline, nofinalnewline, allowanytype to INCLUDE Variable [9:15pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:15pm]PeterThoeny:same, accepted by 7 day feedback period [9:15pm]HideyoImazu:cool [9:15pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DynamicAccessControl [9:15pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Dynamic Access Control [9:16pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:16pm]PeterThoeny:you are on a roll! [9:16pm]PeterThoeny:also accepted by 7 days feedback period [9:16pm]HideyoImazu:ok [9:17pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/FinerControlVariableExpansionInTopicCreation [9:17pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Finer-control variable expansion in topic creation [9:17pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:18pm]PeterThoeny:i posted a question and you replied [9:18pm]PeterThoeny:i have not looked into how easy it is to use the %EOTC:SEARCH{...}% syntax, e.g. with colon [9:19pm]PeterThoeny:personally i think it would be nicer to use a distinguishing syntax from regular variables [9:19pm]HideyoImazu:it would take much more coding [9:19pm]PeterThoeny:i'd say, accepted by 7 day review, and if possible use the colon syntax [9:20pm]HideyoImazu:i'll look into that route. [9:20pm]PeterThoeny:ok [9:20pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RestrictVarHTTP [9:20pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Restricting %HTTP{...}% not to yield certain header fields [9:20pm]HideyoImazu:if it takes a lot of coding, i'll put that on the proposal [9:20pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:21pm]PeterThoeny:accepted by 7 day review [9:21pm]HideyoImazu:cool [9:21pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/SearchWithSortByParent [9:22pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: SEARCH with sort by parent [9:22pm]PeterThoeny:by pth [9:22pm]PeterThoeny:no feedback, so accepted by 7 day feedback period [9:23pm]PeterThoeny:twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/StatisticsEnhancementsForReadOnlyAndMirrorWebs [9:23pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Statistics enhancements for ReadOnlyAndMirrorWebs [9:23pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:24pm]PeterThoeny:we had some discussion and reached consensus [9:24pm]PeterThoeny:and proposed 9 days ago [9:24pm]PeterThoeny:so accepted by either, 7 day feedback, or consensus reached [9:24pm]HideyoImazu:cool [9:24pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiAppUsingVarImportAndFormMapping [9:25pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: TWiki Applications using variable setting import and form mapping [9:26pm]PeterThoeny:i'd say this i a ClosedProposal because handled now by separate proposals [9:26pm]HideyoImazu:This is not a feature proposal per se. [9:26pm]PeterThoeny:this is based per http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CurrentState [9:26pm]HideyoImazu:as it turned out. [9:26pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFuncEnhancementsForReadOnlyAndMirrorWebs [9:26pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: TWiki::Func and TWiki variable enhancements for ReadOnlyAndMirrorWebs [9:26pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:27pm]PeterThoeny:14 days ago, with discussions [9:27pm]PeterThoeny:looks like consensus reached [9:27pm]HideyoImazu:yep [9:27pm]PeterThoeny:any additional note on this? [9:28pm]HideyoImazu:no [9:28pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ImportWebPreferences [9:28pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Importing web-wide preferences from a topic [9:28pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:29pm]PeterThoeny:as stated i am not too much fond of this because the need can be covered with exting feature [9:29pm]PeterThoeny:but i do not object [9:29pm]PeterThoeny:may be a better name than WEB_EXTRA_PREFS_TOPICS [9:30pm]HideyoImazu:what would you propose? [9:30pm]HideyoImazu:I have no problem changing it. [9:30pm]PeterThoeny:1. so far for system preferences we do not use underscore [9:30pm]PeterThoeny:2. more specific to extening pref settings, such as not really web specific [9:31pm]HideyoImazu:WEBPREFERENCESTOPICS ? [9:32pm]PeterThoeny:what about EXTRAPREFERENECES or EXTRAPREFERENECESFROMTOPICS [9:32pm]PeterThoeny:PREFERENCESPATH [9:32pm]PeterThoeny:or the like [9:32pm]PeterThoeny:although PREFERENCESPATH would imply something else [9:33pm]HideyoImazu:under my current design, it takes effect only on WebPreferences [9:33pm]PeterThoeny:but you still read webprefs, eight? [9:33pm]PeterThoeny:right? [9:33pm]HideyoImazu:yes [9:34pm]PeterThoeny:where in the pref eval order do you read the extra prefs? [9:34pm]HideyoImazu:i mean, if the variable is set on other topics than WebPreferences, it doesn't take effect [9:34pm]PeterThoeny:and do you accpet web.topic? [9:34pm]PeterThoeny:ah, so _instead of_ webpreferences? [9:35pm]HideyoImazu:this is because the value of the variable is checked immediately after WebPreferences is read [9:35pm]PeterThoeny:or in addition? [9:35pm]HideyoImazu:in addition [9:35pm]PeterThoeny:ah, so in between webprefs and topic prefs [9:36pm]HideyoImazu:correct [9:36pm]PeterThoeny:the semantically it is not really tied to web [9:36pm]PeterThoeny:it's between web and topic [9:36pm]PeterThoeny:so no need to add web into name [9:37pm]HideyoImazu:the variable would be set at WebPreferences though [9:37pm]PeterThoeny:based on this maybe EXTRAPREFERENECES is sufficient [9:37pm]PeterThoeny:what do you think? [9:37pm]HideyoImazu:i'm fine with EXTRAPREFERENCES [9:37pm]HideyoImazu:it's not too long. [9:38pm]PeterThoeny:ok, so lets do that [9:38pm]HideyoImazu:cool [9:38pm]PeterThoeny:accepted by release meeting [9:38pm]PeterThoeny:twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/PickingFormDefinitionDynamically [9:38pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Picking form definition dynamically [9:38pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:39pm]PeterThoeny:looks like consensus reached by using TWIKIFORMPATH ? [9:39pm]HideyoImazu:right [9:39pm]PeterThoeny:spec is a bit different though [9:39pm]PeterThoeny:please updated the proposal accordingly [9:39pm]HideyoImazu:that's fine [9:39pm]HideyoImazu:sure [9:40pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RenameTopicOptionNotToReplaceWebInternalReferences [9:40pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: The rename topic operation to have option not to replace web internal references [9:40pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:40pm]PeterThoeny:only 1 day ago [9:41pm]PeterThoeny:so we can wait or discuss now [9:41pm]PeterThoeny:what do you prefer? [9:41pm]HideyoImazu:either way [9:41pm]PeterThoeny:related one: [9:41pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RenameWebNotToSearchAllWebsIfNoInAllPublicWebs [9:42pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: The rename web operation not to search all webs if NoInAllPublicWebs is set [9:42pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:42pm]PeterThoeny:alos 1 day ago [9:42pm]PeterThoeny:why two different proposals? what is the difference? [9:42pm]HideyoImazu:the difference is... [9:42pm]PeterThoeny:btw, proposal topic name is very long [9:43pm]HideyoImazu:please feel free to make them shorter [9:43pm]HideyoImazu:the former is about a function [9:44pm]HideyoImazu:the latter is about the script's behavior [9:44pm]PeterThoeny:ah [9:44pm]PeterThoeny:i think proposals are mainly about features that concern users [9:44pm]HideyoImazu:those are related but they are two different things even in terms of coding [9:45pm]PeterThoeny:code refactor does not really need a proposal [9:45pm]PeterThoeny:unless it is a spec change that affects users [9:45pm]HideyoImazu:both affect users [9:46pm]HideyoImazu:i'll elaborate those topics. [9:46pm]PeterThoeny:so i do not grasp the former one [9:47pm]PeterThoeny:no need here [9:47pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CopyScript [9:47pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Copy script [9:48pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:48pm]PeterThoeny:1 day ago [9:48pm]PeterThoeny:as stated, i am fine [9:48pm]PeterThoeny:shall we decide at release meeting? wait? [9:48pm]MahiroAndo:I'm ok too [9:48pm]HideyoImazu:i think we can decide [9:48pm]HideyoImazu:this is simple enough [9:49pm]PeterThoeny:yes, simple enough [9:49pm]PeterThoeny:i am ok [9:49pm]PeterThoeny:mahiro-san? [9:49pm]MahiroAndo:yes, I'm ok [9:49pm]PeterThoeny:ok, accepted by release meeting [9:49pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DeleteToTrashSubweb [9:49pm]HideyoImazu:ccool [9:50pm]PeterThoeny: Feature Proposal: Delete to Trash subweb [9:50pm]PeterThoeny:by hideyo-san [9:50pm]PeterThoeny:what happens if TRASHSUBWEB is set and Trash sub-web does not exist? [9:51pm]HideyoImazu:it's the same as Trash web does not exist [9:51pm]PeterThoeny:Trash web exists by default [9:51pm]PeterThoeny:by Anyweb/Trash typically does not exist [9:52pm]HideyoImazu:i mean the result is the same [9:52pm]PeterThoeny:so if Currentweb/Trash does not exist, it defaults to the default root level Trash web? [9:53pm]HideyoImazu:... [9:53pm]HideyoImazu:i think exception should be thrown [9:53pm]HideyoImazu:on the safer side [9:54pm]HideyoImazu:because TRASHSUBWEB is set means that the web owner doesn't want move things to Trash when deleted. [9:54pm]PeterThoeny:or may be default to default Trash web? [9:54pm]PeterThoeny:because if TRASHSUBWEB is set site-wide, the default would still work [9:55pm]PeterThoeny:an exception would induce too many support calls [9:55pm]HideyoImazu:i don't think that spec is good because... [9:55pm]PeterThoeny:avoid roadblocks for users [9:56pm]HideyoImazu:a site owner wants to keep "deleted" topics and attachments [9:56pm]HideyoImazu:it might be for regulatory reasons [9:56pm]HideyoImazu:but the site owner forgot to set up the Trash subweb [9:57pm]PeterThoeny:in this case the admin is going to create the Trash sub-web and set the TRASHSUBWEB setting anyway [9:57pm]HideyoImazu:if it resorts to Trash top level web [9:57pm]HideyoImazu:topics and attachements would be moved to top level Trash [9:57pm]HideyoImazu:against the intention of the site owner [9:59pm]PeterThoeny:admin user error should be lower than user error i think [9:59pm]HideyoImazu:if exception is thrown, the site owner would notice much earlier about the insufficient setup [9:59pm]HideyoImazu:you man infrequent? [9:59pm]PeterThoeny:this is my opinion, but i do not have a strong opinion on this one [9:59pm]HideyoImazu:you mean infrequent? [10:00pm]PeterThoeny:for system design, operator error by users should be carefully considered [10:01pm]PeterThoeny:operator error by admins not so much, because they are supposed to be the experts [10:01pm]PeterThoeny:so that's why, in order to avoid support calls i think it is better to default to the system Trash [10:02pm]HideyoImazu:for one thing, [10:02pm]PeterThoeny:my opinion, but i don't feel strongly about it [10:02pm]HideyoImazu:the oops page can show the site owner rather than the sit admin as contact [10:03pm]PeterThoeny:ok, it looks like this is important to you, so i am ok with it as proposed [10:03pm]PeterThoeny:do you want to wait or vote now? [10:03pm]HideyoImazu:i'll elaborate about this on the proposal topic as well [10:04pm]HideyoImazu:let me elaborate on the proposal topic. [10:04pm]PeterThoeny:time check: +64 min [10:04pm]HideyoImazu:we should reach consensus. [10:04pm]PeterThoeny:ok, so let's discuss on topic [10:05pm]PeterThoeny:i have no other proposals to discuss [10:05pm]PeterThoeny:any other one? [10:05pm]MahiroAndo:i don't have any other [10:05pm]PeterThoeny:---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [10:06pm]PeterThoeny:i don;t have any here [10:06pm]PeterThoeny:we are in pretty good shape [10:06pm]PeterThoeny:anything? [10:06pm]HideyoImazu:no [10:06pm]MahiroAndo:no [10:07pm]PeterThoeny:---++  3. Extensions [10:07pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/SpreadSheetPlugin [10:08pm]PeterThoeny:i added SpreadSheetPluginTestCases topic [10:08pm]PeterThoeny:and did a big code refacor [10:08pm]PeterThoeny:i also added $STDEV(), $STDEVP(), $VAR(), $VARP() [10:08pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/TWikiDashboardAddOn [10:08pm]PeterThoeny:i added more banner images (by friends of mine) [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/SsoForwardCookiePlugin [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:thanks mahiro-san for further enhancing the plugin! [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/JiraPlugin [10:09pm]MahiroAndo:you're welcome [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:same! [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/IncludeXMLPlugin [10:09pm]PeterThoeny:same! [10:10pm]PeterThoeny:some minor fixes in other plugins have been made in last two weeks [10:10pm]MahiroAndo:for HeadlinesPlugin [10:10pm]PeterThoeny:when you enhance, please always consider compatibility with older releases [10:10pm]PeterThoeny:if needed use conditional code [10:11pm]MahiroAndo:I was supposed to contact the author. I found two authors, but one left the community [10:11pm]MahiroAndo:is it you the only author right now? [10:12pm]PeterThoeny:yes [10:13pm]MahiroAndo:for compatibility, yes I will. please point out anything that should be fixed [10:13pm]PeterThoeny:ah, i see it has ContactAuthorFirst [10:13pm]PeterThoeny:this is legacy [10:13pm]PeterThoeny:now i prefer feel free to modify [10:13pm]MahiroAndo:ah ok [10:13pm]PeterThoeny:just now i changed it to PleaseFeelFreeToModify [10:14pm]PeterThoeny:i have seen that you removed the plugin internal lwp [10:14pm]MahiroAndo:so we don't need to worry too much about ContactAuthorFirst going forward? [10:14pm]PeterThoeny:this was done in early days before the code had the lwp [10:14pm]MahiroAndo:ok [10:14pm]PeterThoeny:so now after a few releases with core having the lwpm i think it is ok to have it removed in the plugin code [10:15pm]PeterThoeny:makes sense that way now [10:15pm]PeterThoeny:on ContactAuthorFirst it depens on the author [10:15pm]MahiroAndo:yes, that way we can also inherit all the internal thing in getExternalResource calls [10:15pm]PeterThoeny:for me it is ok if others make changes [10:15pm]PeterThoeny:for other authors it is still better to check first [10:15pm]MahiroAndo:ok, understood on ContactAuthorFirst [10:16pm]PeterThoeny:this is all i had on plugins [10:16pm]PeterThoeny:anything else? [10:16pm]MahiroAndo:no, that's it from me [10:17pm]PeterThoeny:---++ 4. Miscellaneous [10:17pm]PeterThoeny:anything? [10:17pm]PeterThoeny:if not i join my friends to talk about flying small planes, solar cells, social media etc [10:18pm]MahiroAndo:cool. have fun [10:18pm]HideyoImazu:ttyl [10:18pm]PeterThoeny:ok, nice chatting with you [10:18pm]PeterThoeny:we covered a lot of ground today [10:19pm]PeterThoeny:thanks hideyo-san and mahiro-san [10:19pm]PeterThoeny:i'll post the logs [10:19pm]PeterThoeny:ttyl [10:19pm]MahiroAndo:thanks to you too [10:20pm] MahiroAndo left the chat room. [10:21pm] HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)