Subject: KampalaMeetingLog2016x05x19.txt Date: May 19, 2016 4:03:40 PM PDT [3:13pm] PeterThoeny: am am back, sorry [3:13pm] HaraldJoerg: Welcome back Peter! [3:14pm] HideyoImazu: glad you back [3:14pm] PeterThoeny: hopefully better this time [3:14pm] PeterThoeny: on personal hotspot, can't use company equipment for twiki stuff [3:14pm] PeterThoeny: what's new? [3:15pm] PeterThoeny: on my side: going to launch rockets this sat [3:15pm] PeterThoeny: currently fixing our cork rocket, which god damaged at nasa ames last time [3:15pm] PeterThoeny: came down ballistic onto the runway [3:15pm] PeterThoeny: "got damaged" [3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: god damaged or got damaged? [3:16pm] PeterThoeny: [3:16pm] HideyoImazu: I got my right ankle kicked hard last Wed while I was playing futsal. I'm still limping a bit [3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: I wondered how your rockets would go so high to reach heaven... [3:16pm] PeterThoeny: this is a normal recovery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/peterthoeny/27043132165/in/pool-highpowerrocketry/ [3:17pm] PeterThoeny: this the abnormal one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/peterthoeny/25828371821/in/pool-highpowerrocketry/ [3:17pm] PeterThoeny: おだいじに! [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: depends on motor size [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: the cork rocket has a g-size motor and goes up almost 1000 feet [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: a much skinnier taller rocket of my son goes up 18k feet [3:19pm] HideyoImazu: 18k feet!! [3:19pm] PeterThoeny: yup [3:19pm] PeterThoeny: he is now building one that can reach 55k [3:20pm] HideyoImazu: how do you measure altitude? [3:20pm] PeterThoeny: 1. simulate [3:20pm] PeterThoeny: 2. track with gps [3:20pm] PeterThoeny: 3. track with altimeter in rocket [3:20pm] HideyoImazu: a rocket sends you its current location real time? [3:21pm] PeterThoeny: you can download the gps data and altimeter data to the computer to plot altitude, speed and acceleration vs time [3:21pm] PeterThoeny: those 3 are usially within 5% [3:21pm] PeterThoeny: so it is relatively accurate [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +22 min [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: time to start? [3:22pm] HideyoImazu: sure [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: my opologies HaraldJoerg for blowing the last meeting! [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: "my apologies" [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: can't type today [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2016x05x19 [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous [3:23pm] HaraldJoerg: No problem, I didn't have breaking news at all... [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: going back 30 days now since last meeting [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AddTWikiSheetPluginToTWikiCore [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: this is merged to core [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: only in trunk, so for next non-patch release [3:25pm] PeterThoeny: anything else on feature? [3:25pm] HaraldJoerg: Not from me [3:25pm] HideyoImazu: nothing from me [3:26pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions [3:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges [3:27pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/DateTimePlugin [3:27pm] PeterThoeny: Small tweak in configure setting to avoid horizontal scrolling that affects all other extensions [3:27pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/LoadAppPlugin [3:27pm] PeterThoeny: documentation was incomplete [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: this is now done [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: including example [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: useful plugin for twiki app developers (like me) to hide application code from copycats [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: i just switched from incomplete to plugin package [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PloticusPlugin [3:30pm] PeterThoeny: "improvements 2016-02" by hideyo-san [3:30pm] PeterThoeny: not clear [3:31pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/TWikiSheetPlugin [3:31pm] PeterThoeny: i documented the JSON module dependency [3:32pm] PeterThoeny: i am now working on the issue HaraldJoerg stated: switching back from sheet mode to view mode shows old table content [3:32pm] HideyoImazu: re PloticusPlugin improvements, there are several bug fixes and enhancements described on http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7720 [3:32pm] PeterThoeny: via ajax call this will be updated [3:33pm] PeterThoeny: ah [3:33pm] HaraldJoerg: nice [3:33pm] PeterThoeny: in plugin history possibly add some highlights on fixes going forward? [3:33pm] HideyoImazu: there are various changes with which I was lazy to describe on the plugin documentation [3:33pm] PeterThoeny: ok [3:34pm] HideyoImazu: but I will make some changes to the documentation [3:34pm] PeterThoeny: i have not yet tackled the websocket communication between sheets and server [3:34pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/SpreadSheetPlugin [3:34pm] PeterThoeny: i documented deprecated LISTMAP() and MULT() [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: there was some confusion in the support web, hence the update [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: that's it on extensions [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: anuything else? [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: anything coming up? [3:35pm] HideyoImazu: nothing from me [3:36pm] HaraldJoerg: No... haven't done much coding lately [3:36pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [3:36pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges [3:36pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item7741 - CgiContrib requiring Perl 5.10 or higher [3:36pm] PeterThoeny: where do we stand with this? [3:37pm] HaraldJoerg: Using CgiContrib from TWikiRelease06x00 should fix the issue, but I didn't have time to actually test it with Perl 5.8 [3:37pm] PeterThoeny: i think fix is either downgrade cgi, or ship latest file temp with twiki [3:37pm] HaraldJoerg: In the branch, I've been using an older CGI version [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: yes, that is the better fix [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: is cgicontrib uploaded to the repository? [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: i mean the updated one [3:39pm] HaraldJoerg: As far as I know on TWiki.org there's the "working" one, with CGI 4.03 [3:39pm] PeterThoeny: cool [3:39pm] HaraldJoerg: In SVN trunk there's CGI 4.13, which I still need to come around to downgrade [3:40pm] PeterThoeny: last upload 2015-11-29 [3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, and I made a commit to Item5056 (untidy logs) to incorporate Hideyo-san's comment [3:40pm] PeterThoeny: short description states 4.03 [3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: Then I guess that's what is in the package [3:41pm] PeterThoeny: so we seem to be good on 6.0 branch [3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: I hope so [3:42pm] PeterThoeny: Item7633 and Item7672: activity by HaraldJoerg, thank you! [3:42pm] PeterThoeny: that is all i see in bugs web [3:42pm] PeterThoeny: anything? [3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, that was just cleaning up old bug reports of mine [3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: What's still buggering me is that bloody insecure dependency [3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: It appears to come up with old Perl versions recently, so perhaps my assumption to relate it to a security fix in Debian is plain wrong [3:44pm] PeterThoeny: yes, that is an issue that comes up frequently in the support web! [3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: The new support item again confirms the model that it happens whenever TWiki rejects a session cookie [3:44pm] PeterThoeny: latest one: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Support/SID-02201 [3:45pm] PeterThoeny: HaraldJoerg: do you have time to look into this? [3:45pm] PeterThoeny: either a patch, or a suggested fix upstream? [3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: Not really   I'm just changing projects at work, which means double load until this is finished [3:46pm] PeterThoeny: ok [3:46pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous [3:46pm] PeterThoeny: anything? [3:46pm] HaraldJoerg: I still fail to reproduce it in a simple test case, and I'm no longer sure that it is an upstream problem [3:46pm] PeterThoeny: i have one, but first, do you? [3:47pm] HaraldJoerg: TWiki has its own flavour of CGI::Session [3:47pm] PeterThoeny: ah, so it could be a bug on our side [3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: Yes, a bug which may have surfaced due to an upstream change [3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: Only that our subclassing "looks" pretty harmless and correct to me [3:49pm] PeterThoeny: possibly as simple as one extra untaint? [3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: I haven't found a place in TWiki where to untaint a file name which is created in CGI::Session [3:50pm] PeterThoeny: i have a hard stop at +60 min (in 10 min) [3:50pm] HaraldJoerg: But maybe we can untaint it before writing to disk [3:50pm] PeterThoeny: worth a try [3:51pm] HaraldJoerg: Not having a working test case makes this very cumbersome [3:51pm] PeterThoeny: indeed [3:51pm] PeterThoeny: in remaining time i'd like to discuss our focus on limited dev resources we have [3:51pm] PeterThoeny: at one client i have been using google apps recently [3:52pm] PeterThoeny: they have some pretty useful stuff [3:52pm] PeterThoeny: one of the biggest thumbs up is simultaneous editing of docs and sheets [3:52pm] PeterThoeny: which comes in very handy in meetings [3:52pm] HideyoImazu: agreed [3:53pm] PeterThoeny: twiki feels kind of old school in this regard [3:53pm] HideyoImazu: simultaneous editing is magical [3:53pm] PeterThoeny: pretty soon users expect this as the norm [3:53pm] PeterThoeny: meaning we need to provide that functionality if we want to stay competitive [3:54pm] PeterThoeny: with twiki sheet we are already there [3:54pm] HaraldJoerg: I don't think that should be required for a structured wiki [3:54pm] PeterThoeny: i don't think the default mode for page editing needs to be simultaneous edit [3:55pm] PeterThoeny: but for special cases like working on status updates in a meeting it would be very useful to have this option [3:55pm] HaraldJoerg: Getting decent versioning could be tricky with simultaneous edits [3:56pm] PeterThoeny: so, someone could initiate a simultaneous edit of a twiki topic, from that point on the edit button goes into concurrent edit mode [3:56pm] PeterThoeny: once the last user leaves the page it reverts back to normal mode [3:56pm] PeterThoeny: yes, versioning is one point of concern [3:57pm] PeterThoeny: g sheets has history view that is quite useful [3:57pm] HideyoImazu: a weekly meeting topic of my team consists of %INCLUDE{...}%s of the members, together with links to edit included pages. [3:57pm] PeterThoeny: also, should concurrent edit be just in raw edit mode or quasi wysiwyg? [3:58pm] PeterThoeny: the latter would be quite challenging [3:58pm] HideyoImazu: those edit links have redirectto the including topic [3:58pm] PeterThoeny: there are open source tools for simultaneous updates [3:59pm] HaraldJoerg: Simultaneous editing of TWiki variable constructs can make a page completely unreadable [3:59pm] PeterThoeny: at my client in status update meeting we update a g doc, sometimes users work on bullets above/below each other [3:59pm] PeterThoeny: you see tooltip of person editing [4:00pm] PeterThoeny: so on phone you communicate and type, and everybody is in sync [4:00pm] PeterThoeny: this is very usful stuff [4:01pm] PeterThoeny: yes, there is a place for simu edits, definitely not for twiki app pages [4:01pm] PeterThoeny: ok, i ned to sign off [4:01pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +61 min [4:01pm] PeterThoeny: please give some thoughts on concurrent editing [4:02pm] HaraldJoerg: Ok, then TTY in June! [4:02pm] PeterThoeny: and let's visit this topic another time [4:02pm] PeterThoeny: tty next time [4:02pm] PeterThoeny: thanks HaraldJoerg & HideyoImazu-san! [4:02pm] HideyoImazu: ok. ttyl [4:02pm] HaraldJoerg left the chat room. [4:02pm] PeterThoeny: i'll post the logs and minutes as usual