Subject: KampalaMeetingLog-2017-01-05.txt Date: January 5, 2017 4:03:48 PM PST [3:01pm] PeterThoeny: good morning hideyo-san! [3:02pm] HideyoImazu: Hi Peter [3:02pm] HideyoImazu: Happy new year! [3:02pm] PeterThoeny: häppy new year! [3:02pm] PeterThoeny: did you party a lot? [3:02pm] HideyoImazu: just one day [3:03pm] HideyoImazu: middle school reunion [3:03pm] PeterThoeny: back to ogaki? [3:03pm] HideyoImazu: from 11:30 to 20:00 [3:03pm] HideyoImazu: in Ogaki [3:03pm] PeterThoeny: ah nice! [3:03pm] PeterThoeny: did you recognize everybody? [3:03pm] HideyoImazu: almost [3:04pm] PeterThoeny: this time we did not go to the temple in ogaki [3:04pm] PeterThoeny: we had fun in tokyo, nice meeting you again! [3:05pm] HideyoImazu: yep [3:05pm] PeterThoeny: did you see the photo of martin-san with the ochoko eye glasses? [3:05pm] HideyoImazu: I didn't know you have those friends in Japan [3:05pm] PeterThoeny: from long time ago [3:06pm] HideyoImazu: did you post it on Facebok? [3:06pm] PeterThoeny: yes [3:06pm] HideyoImazu: I saw it. [3:06pm] HideyoImazu: hilarious [3:06pm] PeterThoeny: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154771438323950&set=a.10154765650108950.1073741847.563198949 [3:06pm] PeterThoeny: and on flickr [3:07pm] PeterThoeny: he is always up to something fun [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +11 min [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: looks like just the two of us [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: let's start [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/KampalaReleaseMeeting2017x01x05 [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: agenda: [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: 2. Extensions [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: 4. Miscellaneous [3:11pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Kampala Release [3:12pm] PeterThoeny: last meeting was dec 1st [3:12pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebChanges [3:13pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AllowOrDenyTopicInAdditionToWebLevel - by hideyo-san [3:13pm] HideyoImazu: what do you think? [3:13pm] PeterThoeny: let me read to understand [3:13pm]  HaraldJoerg joined the chat room. [3:13pm] PeterThoeny: hi HaraldJoerg! häppy new year! [3:14pm] HaraldJoerg: Good evening, and sorry for being late [3:14pm] PeterThoeny: we are at feature proposals [3:14pm] PeterThoeny: just started at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/AllowOrDenyTopicInAdditionToWebLevel [3:14pm] HaraldJoerg: IIRC There was one by Hideyo-san, regarding access control [3:14pm] HaraldJoerg: Ah, yes [3:15pm] PeterThoeny: oic, this is what COVER does for SKIN [3:15pm] HideyoImazu: this kind of feature is obviously handy. so I wonder if there is an existing way to achieve that. AFIK there is nothing. [3:16pm] HaraldJoerg: The proposal sounds fine for me, though I've no actual need [3:16pm] HideyoImazu: let's say there is a web restricted to a certain group. [3:16pm] PeterThoeny: your feature is like inheriting web access and adding topic level access [3:16pm] HideyoImazu: that web may have some pages to be viewable by some additional folks [3:16pm] PeterThoeny: looks good to me [3:17pm] PeterThoeny: i don't have direct need for this, but definitely good to have [3:17pm] HideyoImazu: glad to hear that. [3:17pm] PeterThoeny: the plus sign makes it intuitive i think [3:17pm] HaraldJoerg: It is pretty straightforward in its syntax, hard to misunderstand [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: yup [3:18pm] HideyoImazu: maybe on a small installation or organization, this is not needed. [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: this proposal is already accepted by the feedback period [3:18pm] PeterThoeny: yes, i can see need for large installation [3:18pm] HideyoImazu: but we mainly use LDAP groups rather than TWiki groups for access control [3:19pm] HideyoImazu: there are webs restricted to multiple LDAP groups. [3:20pm] HideyoImazu: anyway I'm glad to hear you guys' feedback [3:20pm] PeterThoeny: next: [3:20pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/DatalistFormFieldType - by JaniHamalainen [3:21pm] PeterThoeny: this has no committed deveoper and date [3:21pm] PeterThoeny: but sample code [3:21pm] HideyoImazu: this was discussed in a release meeting in the past [3:22pm] HideyoImazu: did you contact the guy, Peter? [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: what did we decide? [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: ah, now i remember, no, unfortunately not yet [3:22pm] PeterThoeny: let me follow up [3:22pm] HideyoImazu: I was thinking you would contact the guy telling there need to be a committed developer [3:23pm] PeterThoeny: yup [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: i think these are all feature proposals [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: anything else? [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: if not: [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 2. Extensions [3:24pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/WebChanges [3:25pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/FormPluginDev [3:25pm] PeterThoeny: has a crypt token question [3:26pm] PeterThoeny: plugin likely needs to be enhanced for crypt token support [3:26pm] PeterThoeny: i'll add add a comment [3:26pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/LdapNgPlugin - updated by hideyo-san [3:27pm] PeterThoeny: no entry in history, what changed? [3:28pm] HideyoImazu: a minor document change [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: ah [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/VarCachePlugin - update by hideyo-san [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: ah, sub-web bug fix [3:28pm] PeterThoeny: thanks hideyo-san! [3:29pm] HideyoImazu: np [3:29pm] HideyoImazu: it's an easy fix [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: i think that's all for extensions [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: anything? [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 3. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs [3:29pm] PeterThoeny: http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/WebChanges [3:30pm] HaraldJoerg: I admit I'm pretty unprepared tonight [3:30pm] PeterThoeny: only one change: [3:30pm] PeterThoeny: "table2excel of ExcelImportExportPlugin to be able to supress the config sheet" [3:30pm] PeterThoeny: by hideyo-san [3:31pm] PeterThoeny: anything to discuss? [3:31pm] HideyoImazu: not from me [3:31pm] HaraldJoerg: Nope [3:31pm] PeterThoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous [3:31pm] PeterThoeny: anything? [3:32pm] PeterThoeny: on xss report, it looks like we are covered [3:32pm] HideyoImazu: cool [3:32pm] PeterThoeny: thanks hideyo-san for followup [3:32pm] HideyoImazu: np [3:33pm] PeterThoeny: maybe not today, but we should soon discuss next release [3:33pm] HideyoImazu: ok [3:34pm] PeterThoeny: last release was over a year ago [3:34pm] HideyoImazu: right [3:34pm] PeterThoeny: we should release pretty soon! [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: let's do scope discussion next time [3:35pm] HideyoImazu: yep [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: please think a bit of what you'd like to get into the new release [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: that is all on my side [3:35pm] PeterThoeny: anything else? [3:36pm] HideyoImazu: besides, we should come up with sales pitch of the new release [3:36pm] HideyoImazu: something we brag about the new release [3:36pm] HaraldJoerg: I don't know how much time I'll have on my hands to work for TWiki, but I'd be interested in revitalizing a Debian package for TWiki [3:36pm] PeterThoeny: indeed [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: i'd really like to get http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiAppInstaller ready for release [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: that would be good reason to brag [3:38pm] HaraldJoerg: I've collected some experience with Debian packages lately... TWiki is a bit far off regarding its directory structure, but most of it can be covered with traditional TWiki configuration [3:38pm] PeterThoeny: but a lot of work needs to be done [3:40pm] PeterThoeny: a debian package would benefit upbuntu users too [3:40pm] HaraldJoerg: Sure, that's the same packaging toolset [3:40pm] PeterThoeny: however in corporate settings i mainly see redhat/centos [3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: I can't help with these distributions right now, my RPM knowledge is close to zero [3:41pm] PeterThoeny: amazon linux and google cloud linux seems also centos [3:41pm] HaraldJoerg: they seem to have all the same feature set, but they're doing it differently [3:42pm] HaraldJoerg: An intermediate step would be to make TWiki fit for CPAN [3:42pm] PeterThoeny: for real yum update like convenience, some enhancemants need to be done [3:42pm] PeterThoeny: for example, the twiki web would need to be read-only [3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: There's an almost-automagic conversion from CPAN to Debian's .deb, and I guess that similar stuff exists for the other distributions [3:43pm] HaraldJoerg: ...and yes, that's the enhancements that need to be done. [3:44pm] HaraldJoerg: Declare LocalSite.cfg as conffile so that it isn't overwritten on upgrade [3:44pm] PeterThoeny: and all customization needs to be done in main web, based on twiki-web located templates (such as registration, user profile headers, etc) [3:45pm] HaraldJoerg: In my opionion, in a Linux distro package it would be a no-go to allow Plugin installation by non-root users [3:46pm] PeterThoeny: that could be a bit too restrictive [3:47pm] PeterThoeny: i think it might be better and easier to just auito-update core engine [3:47pm] HaraldJoerg: Perl modules are usually installed as owned-by-root [3:47pm] PeterThoeny: and enhance to twiki configure to easily bring installed plugins up to date [3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: That would need extra effort to bring the TWiki code to a place where www-data can write it [3:48pm] HaraldJoerg: (or whatever the user running the web server is called) [3:49pm] HideyoImazu: Peter, do you agree that whoever installed TWiki can install plugin, nobody else? [3:49pm] PeterThoeny: irt dependency, the plugins update could be made to fail if a dependent perl module is out of date or missing, hence force admin to resolve dependency as root [3:50pm] PeterThoeny: yes, only twiki admin should be able to install/upgrade plugins [3:50pm] PeterThoeny: on the other hand, twiki apps could be installed by web users [3:51pm] PeterThoeny: back to debian/redhat packages, a full aproach is to package also all plugins [3:51pm] HaraldJoerg: Given the power of Perl code to be executed by the web server, I don't think this will be accepted by distros [3:51pm] PeterThoeny: but that looks like a major undertaking [3:53pm] HaraldJoerg: I admit that I've no idea about popular TWiki use, but I feel that most TWikis are just using the core [3:53pm] HaraldJoerg: A distributable, pre-configured package could be sort-of "TWiki light" [3:54pm] PeterThoeny: i usually install a few extra plugin for my client installations [3:55pm] HaraldJoerg: No harm in packaging "a few", but I would not want to package all 400+ [3:55pm] PeterThoeny: definitely not [3:56pm] HaraldJoerg: Making a package is also a committment for maintenance, sort of [3:56pm] PeterThoeny: time check: +56 min [3:56pm] PeterThoeny: we should close soon [3:57pm] PeterThoeny: shall we wrap up? [3:57pm] HaraldJoerg: ok [3:57pm] PeterThoeny: ok, i'll post the logs and minutes [3:58pm] PeterThoeny: thanks HideyoImazu-san & HaraldJoerg! [3:58pm] PeterThoeny: ttyl [3:58pm] HaraldJoerg: TTYL [3:59pm]  HaraldJoerg left the chat room. (Quit: HaraldJoerg) [3:59pm] HideyoImazu: ttyl [3:59pm]  HideyoImazu left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)