Date: December 6, 2010 11:46:56 AM PST
Subject: IstanbulMeetingLog2010x12x06.txt

[10:03am] peterthoeny: hi smokris
[10:03am] peterthoeny: brb...
[10:04am]  GeorgeTrubisky joined the chat room.
[10:10am] peterthoeny: hi steve, hi george!
[10:10am] GeorgeTrubisky: hi peter
[10:10am] peterthoeny: welcome george to the release meeting, you are here for the first time
[10:10am] GeorgeTrubisky: yes
[10:11am] peterthoeny: usually we are a couple more people, lets give it some more minutes before we start 
with the agenda
[10:15am] peterthoeny: tim check: +15 min
[10:15am] peterthoeny: i think we should start
[10:16am] peterthoeny: small group today!
[10:16am] peterthoeny: may be a quick intro first?
[10:17am] smokris: Hi, Peter.  (Sorry, I'm back now.)
[10:17am] peterthoeny: i know steve for a number of years
[10:18am] peterthoeny: steve did some consulting work for our clients in the past
[10:18am] peterthoeny: george and i exchanged some e-mails
[10:18am] GeorgeTrubisky: Peter, I am here today in the TWiki community member role (newbie)
[10:18am] smokris: Welcome, George!
[10:19am] peterthoeny: my intro: i started twiki 13 years ago when i had a need for a knowledge base for 
customer support
[10:19am] GeorgeTrubisky: I'm also new to open source communities, so please excuse me for my lack of 
knowledge
[10:19am] peterthoeny: the tiny company takefive software got acquired by wind river
[10:19am] peterthoeny: at wind river i wikified the company with twiki
[10:19am] peterthoeny: 1000+ employees, now 120k twiki pages
[10:20am] peterthoeny: i left wind river in 2005 to co-author the wikis for dummies book and consulting
[10:20am] peterthoeny: in 2007 i co-founded twiki.net, now twiki inc
[10:21am] GeorgeTrubisky: I've worked at Safeway for the last 12 years, last 8 as a software configuration 
manager for our config management team
[10:22am] GeorgeTrubisky: Been reading the book (wikis for dummies)
[10:22am] peterthoeny: must be a big IT team at safeway, such a large company
[10:22am] peterthoeny: i'd be interested in candid feedback on the book (off-line)
[10:22am] GeorgeTrubisky: yes.  Much of the development is done offshore....India
[10:23am] peterthoeny: seems like IT is pretty much distributed at safeway
[10:23am] peterthoeny: perfect case for an internal wiki
[10:23am] GeorgeTrubisky: Safeway has lots of COT software....development is for internal use
[10:24am] peterthoeny: cot?
[10:24am] GeorgeTrubisky: Commercial Off the Shelf...
[10:24am] GeorgeTrubisky: COTS
[10:25am] peterthoeny: oic
[10:25am] peterthoeny: agenda is posted at 
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/IstanbulReleaseMeeting2010x12x06
[10:26am] peterthoeny: with links
[10:26am] peterthoeny: agenda:
[10:26am] peterthoeny: # 1. Feature Requests for Istanbul Release
[10:26am] peterthoeny: # 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[10:26am] peterthoeny: # 3. Getting Involved Discussion
[10:26am] peterthoeny: # 4. Miscellaneous
[10:26am] peterthoeny: since we are only three we can make the meeting a bit informal
[10:26am] peterthoeny: ---++ 1. Feature Requests for Istanbul Release
[10:26am] peterthoeny: see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiFeatureProposals
[10:27am] GeorgeTrubisky: sure.  I did review your release management process
[10:27am] peterthoeny: see first table (query)
[10:27am] peterthoeny: we have many accepted features for istanbul release
[10:28am] peterthoeny: (istanbul is the code name for upcoming twiki-5.1 release
[10:28am] peterthoeny: thomas weigert commited to MakeUserModifiedTemplatesMoreUpgradeResilient, 
BringViewPrintCloserToView, RemoveInconsistencyRegardingCopyright
[10:29am] peterthoeny: sopan shewale to VersionLocalSitedotCfg
[10:30am] peterthoeny: chris lahti to MultiStoreRefactor, although that one is a bigger chunk, so do not 
expect too soon
[10:30am] peterthoeny: chris lahti finished the implementation of ParameterizedVariables, docs are pending
[10:30am] smokris: and I've still got SummaryBasedOnSearchTerms
[10:30am] peterthoeny: yes
[10:31am] peterthoeny: timothe litt committed to DefaultsForAttachmentProperties, although i have not seen 
him for a while
[10:31am] peterthoeny: we have a number in the UnderInvestigation state
[10:32am] peterthoeny: george: fyi, this is a dynamic report; we have feature proposal pages that carry 
the state and other information
[10:33am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[10:33am] peterthoeny: our release management process is documented at 
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiReleaseManagementProcess
[10:33am] GeorgeTrubisky: yes, I did review that
[10:33am] peterthoeny: i invite you to read off-line
[10:33am] peterthoeny: ah, good
[10:34am] peterthoeny: among the UnderInvestigation state proposal, any feature you'd like to discuss?
[10:35am] peterthoeny: if not we can go to next agenda item
[10:36am] peterthoeny: or, do you have a new feature idea you'd like to discuss?
[10:36am] GeorgeTrubisky: sure.  I'm going to study the improve build process some more offline
[10:36am] smokris: AddIsValidWebNameToTWikiFunc seems like it should be pretty trivial to expose..?  Or am 
I overlooking something?
[10:37am] peterthoeny: yes, is trivial
[10:38am] peterthoeny: if interested please grab that feature, set your name as committed dev, and set the 
release target to istanbul
[10:38am] peterthoeny: i do not think we added to the api for istanbul yet
[10:38am] smokris: OK, will do.
[10:39am] peterthoeny: so if you do, please bump up the api version
[10:39am] smokris: yes.
[10:40am] peterthoeny: i think it is $TWiki::Plugins::VERSION
[10:40am] peterthoeny: currently at 1.3
[10:40am] peterthoeny: which is for helsinki aka twiki-5.0
[10:40am] peterthoeny: so it would get 1.4 for istanbul aka twiki-5.1
[10:41am] peterthoeny: ---++ 2. Review Urgent and Not So Urgent Bugs
[10:41am] peterthoeny: i think we can skip this one
[10:41am] peterthoeny: we are in very good shape on bug front
[10:41am] peterthoeny: except for internationalization, which is a bigger chunk
[10:42am] peterthoeny: ---++ 3. Getting Involved Discussion
[10:42am] peterthoeny: i changed the 3rd agenda item from twiki mission to this one
[10:42am] peterthoeny: more timely
[10:43am] peterthoeny: yesterday i finished http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GettingInvolved
[10:43am] peterthoeny: we are still way too small community
[10:43am] peterthoeny: smaller than before
[10:43am] peterthoeny: mainly caused by the fork in oct 2008
[10:44am] peterthoeny: we had a number of forks in the past
[10:44am] peterthoeny: but this one is much more impactful for two reasons:
[10:44am] peterthoeny: 1. many core developers left
[10:45am] peterthoeny: 2. daily voices against twiki by the forkers in social media, painting a picture of 
twiki that does not reflect the reality
[10:45am] peterthoeny: so my goal is the build up the community
[10:46am] GeorgeTrubisky: by fork, did a new product arise?
[10:46am] peterthoeny: yes
[10:46am] peterthoeny: basically same like twiki (same codebase) but they are now diverging
[10:47am] peterthoeny: the add features and bugs very quickly
[10:47am] GeorgeTrubisky: what is it called or its nameplate?
[10:47am] peterthoeny: they are called foswiki
[10:47am] peterthoeny: the previous one was called owiki
[10:47am] peterthoeny: forking is the fundamental right of open source
[10:48am] peterthoeny: it is a good thing
[10:48am] peterthoeny: what is not good this time is the constant attacks we get
[10:49am] peterthoeny: my goal is the have a harmonious relationship where people are invited to contribute 
to both projects
[10:49am] GeorgeTrubisky: well, I have been doing my own walkabout for wiki's and I haven't noted anything 
in particular against TWiki
[10:49am] peterthoeny: so far it is not possible, but i keep trying
[10:50am] peterthoeny: i see it on an almost daily basis
[10:50am] peterthoeny: see for example the comments at 
http://www.building43.com/videos/2010/07/01/how-work-is-changing-with-the-open-source-wiki-pioneers-twiki/
[10:51am] peterthoeny: anyway, this is not the topic today, but i wanted to give the context on the 
"getting involved" page
[10:51am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[10:51am] peterthoeny: on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GettingInvolved what do you think?
[10:51am] peterthoeny: any suggestion how to make the page more approachable to potential contributors
[10:53am] GeorgeTrubisky: it would be good to get a package for ubuntu.  I take it that doesn't exist yet
[10:54am] peterthoeny: there was one for older twiki releases
[10:54am] peterthoeny: but it has not been maintained, so ubuntu apparently removed it recently
[10:55am] peterthoeny: we need an owner for the ubuntu package
[10:56am] peterthoeny: i sent an e-mail to a former (very early on) twiki contributor who is now active in 
the ubuntu community
[10:57am] smokris: (I don't yet have any ubuntu-package-maintenance experience, but I've actually been 
interested in learning about that for a while.  I can't commit to a definite timeframe, but I'll start 
trying to figure this out.)
[10:57am] peterthoeny: i am asking around to try to get more people involved
[10:57am] peterthoeny: cool, thank you steve!
[10:58am] peterthoeny: shall i put you in touch with my ubuntu contact?
[10:59am] smokris: Sure.
[10:59am] peterthoeny: i'll do that
[11:00am] peterthoeny: some other good news: i asked a professor of a small university in ontario, he 
invites us to create a proposal his students can implement
[11:01am] smokris: Awesome.  Have you already decided on a task to give them?
[11:01am] peterthoeny: "Each winter and spring term, a team of students has to complete a system project 
prior to graduation.  Normally this is done in teams of 2-4 students and has to be completed in a 
three-and-a-half month academic term."
[11:02am] peterthoeny: "If you are interested I would ask that you put together a few project ideas 
(PDF?) that you think would be interesting and realistic for a group of students to complete as part of 
their graduation requirement"
[11:02am] peterthoeny: not yet decided on task
[11:02am] peterthoeny: currently discussing
[11:02am] peterthoeny: i also sent an e-mail to the dean of cmu silicon valley
[11:03am] peterthoeny: to ask for help
[11:03am] peterthoeny: they are our customer
[11:03am] peterthoeny: time check: +63 min
[11:03am] peterthoeny: we should wrap up
[11:03am] peterthoeny: i have another meeting coming up
[11:04am] peterthoeny: please spread the word, ask around, point them to the Getting Involved page
[11:04am] GeorgeTrubisky: ok
[11:04am] smokris: Cool.  I'll review the list of features with that in mind.
[11:05am] smokris: I really like the visual/iconic representation of features on the new GettingInvolved 
topic, by the way.  The graphic style is a bit inconsistent between the various icons though — it would 
be great if we could eventually get a designer onboard to sketch out something consistent there, for the 
next release's committed features.
[11:06am] peterthoeny: yes, that would be good
[11:06am] peterthoeny: right now the list in the getting started page is static
[11:06am] smokris: Yes, perhaps we could eventually make "icon" part of the ChangeProposalForm?
[11:07am] peterthoeny: we could add an image url to each feature proposal page and generate the table 
dynamically in the getting started page
[11:07am] peterthoeny: great minds think alike
[11:07am] smokris: ha
[11:07am] peterthoeny: standardize on 150 pixel width
[11:08am] smokris: OK.  I'll take a look at that when I get a chance.
[11:08am] peterthoeny: ---++ 4. Miscellaneous
[11:08am] peterthoeny: thanks steve!
[11:09am] peterthoeny: any misc stuff to discuss?
[11:10am] smokris: (I have nothing else at the moment.)
[11:10am] peterthoeny: ok
[11:10am] peterthoeny: lets close the meeting
[11:10am] GeorgeTrubisky: Thanks for inviting me.
[11:10am] peterthoeny: thanks steve and george
[11:11am] peterthoeny: next one is in two weeks
[11:11am] peterthoeny: i'll post the minutes and the irc log
[11:11am] peterthoeny: ttyl
[11:11am] smokris: great.  see you then.
[11:14am]  smokris left the chat room. (".")
[11:15am]  GeorgeTrubisky left the chat room. ("Leaving...")