Session Start (PeterThoeny:#twiki_marketing): Mon Sep 03 12:10:53 2007
[12:10] *** #twiki_marketing: PeterThoeny OliverKrueger @SvenDowideit 
[12:10] *** #twiki_marketing was created on Mon Sep 03 02:46:09 2007.
[12:40] *** Rod has joined #twiki_marketing.
[12:45] *** ProductBox has joined #twiki_marketing.
[12:52] *** Rodman has joined #twiki_marketing.
[12:52] SvenDowideit: so... how much will the conference call number cost ?
[12:52] SvenDowideit: when its long distance?
[12:53] OliverKrueger: Skype + Call-in?
[12:53] Rodman: If skype, it's only 0.02 Euros per minute
[12:53] Rodman: +1 712 451 6000
[12:53] Rodman: code 192170#
[12:53] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMinutes2007x09x03
[12:55] *** gmc has joined #twiki_marketing.
[12:56] gmc: hi all
[12:56] gmc: i made it!
[12:56] Rodman: welcome, welcome
[12:56] PeterThoeny: hi koen, sven, oliver, rod
[12:56] OliverKrueger: Hi Peter
[12:56] PeterThoeny: who is productbox?
[12:56] *** ProductBox is n=chatzill@89.242.246.45 (New Now Know How)
[12:56] *** ProductBox is on: #twiki_marketing #twiki 
[12:56] *** ProductBox is using irc.freenode.net http://freenode.net/
[12:56] *** End of /WHOIS.
[12:57] ProductBox: Hi there, this is ProductBox aka Michael COrbett
[12:58] ProductBox: Sounds like Rob is having problems with his IRC
[12:59] *** ArthurClemens has joined #twiki_marketing.
[12:59] PeterThoeny: ah, hi michael!
[12:59] * gmc wonders what happened to Carlo btw
[13:00] PeterThoeny: i have seen your marketing activities, thanks michael!
[13:00] ProductBox: No problem Peter - I see that you have read Crossing the 
        Chasm too
[13:01] ProductBox: By the way, Rod is having problems with his IRC and he 
        asks Peter to start with the agenda if he wants
[13:01] *** Rod has signed off IRC (Connection reset by peer).
[13:01] *** CDot has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:02] *** colas has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:02] *** ktwilight_ has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:02] gmc: so, are you guys all in the conference call, or will we skip that 
        (/me fears telephone bills)
[13:03] SvenDowideit: i'd rather not be tethered to my phone
[13:03] *** RodBeckstrom1 has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:03] ProductBox: The problem is that Rod can't get his IRC woorking
[13:03] RodBeckstrom1: hi guys I'm back :)
[13:03] gmc: perhaps he can use the webchat?
[13:03] RodBeckstrom1: just a bit IRC challenged- window keeps disappearing
[13:03] RodBeckstrom1: let's hope it stay
[13:03] RodBeckstrom1: where are we on the agenda?
[13:03] gmc: RodBeckstrom1: we haven't started yet :)
[13:04] RodBeckstrom1: okay, is Koen here?
[13:04] gmc: that's me
[13:04] RodBeckstrom1: gotcha
[13:04] RodBeckstrom1: Koen, the first agenda item is the blog you set up 
[13:04] PeterThoeny: minutes are at 
        http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMinutes2007x09x03
[13:04] RodBeckstrom1: this is a great move, can you give us an update?
[13:04] PeterThoeny: rod, before we dive into details
[13:05] PeterThoeny: i'd like to give a quick overview what happened so far on the 
        marketing front
[13:05] RodBeckstrom1: great Peter, please go for it
[13:05] gmc: +1
[13:05] PeterThoeny: also, who is facilitating, who is taking notes?
[13:05] gmc: i can facilitate
[13:05] PeterThoeny: thanks koen!
[13:06] RodBeckstrom1: I can take notes
[13:06] PeterThoeny: cool
[13:06] PeterThoeny: please reload the minutes page
[13:06] ProductBox: By the way, there was only me and Rod on the conference call so 
        we've decided to drop the audio part of this meeting
[13:06] PeterThoeny: and look at:
 ---+ 0. Recent Marketing Activities
[13:07] PeterThoeny: in 2006 we had some good work done on twiki.org redesign
[13:07] gmc: ok, so Peter before _you_ get started
[13:07] gmc: perhaps it would be wise to look at the entire agenda and conclude that 
        we won't have time for all of it
[13:07] PeterThoeny: yes?
[13:07] ProductBox: How long are we expecting the meeting to take?
[13:07] RodBeckstrom1: we have 51 more minutes don't we, or just 21?
[13:08] RodBeckstrom1: i propose a one hour call, or we can power for 30 miutes total
[13:08] gmc: depends. but if there are things that absolutely need to be discussed, 
        it would be good to move those upfront
[13:08] ArthurClemens: I have until the whole hour
[13:08] gmc: 1h is fine
[13:08] PeterThoeny: i think we should use the first meeting for getting everything 
        aligned, for brainstorming and to identify champions
[13:08] RodBeckstrom1: good idea
[13:08] PeterThoeny: so the agenda looks good to me
[13:08] gmc: ok
[13:08] *** Lavr_ has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:08] RodBeckstrom1: ditto
[13:08] gmc: hi kenneth
[13:08] RodBeckstrom1: Tag Kenneth!
[13:08] gmc: so go ahead peter (kenneth we are at agenda item 0)
[13:08] PeterThoeny: hi kenneth
[13:08] Lavr_: Are you also on phone?
[13:08] gmc: http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMinutes2007x09x03
[13:09] PeterThoeny: no phone
[13:09] Lavr_: OK
[13:09] PeterThoeny: ok, back to agenda item 0
[13:09] OliverKrueger: Do we miss anything, if we are not on the phone?
[13:09] PeterThoeny: a lot of work was done in 2006 to make twiki.org better
[13:09] gmc: OliverKrueger: we skipped the phone part
[13:09] RodBeckstrom1: I'm on the conference line if anyone wants to join ,but its 
        entirely optional
[13:09] ProductBox: We miss a big phone bill :)
[13:09] OliverKrueger: :)
[13:09] PeterThoeny: with the resources at hand, main focus was support web, plugins 
        web and twiki web
[13:10] PeterThoeny: the doc team wanted to redesign also the homepage
[13:10] ktwilight_: skype is out of the question i take it.
[13:10] PeterThoeny: but this has not been done
[13:10] ArthurClemens: There was more on our plate
[13:10] PeterThoeny: besides twiki.org redesign there is also twiki advocacy going on
[13:10] ArthurClemens: but we didn't have the time then, or the agreement
[13:11] PeterThoeny: for each production release we have a press release and post at 
        websites, magazines
[13:11] PeterThoeny: ArthurClemens: the main problem was time
[13:11] PeterThoeny: i think the doc team had agreement on actionable items
[13:11] PeterThoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgDocWork2006
[13:12] gmc: ok, let's not split hairs about this
[13:12] PeterThoeny: fast forward, in 2007 not much was done on marketing front
[13:12] PeterThoeny: carlo took the initative to simplify the support webhome
[13:12] PeterThoeny: the community is fired up since our rome meeting :-)
[13:13] PeterThoeny: so here we are with fresh energy to tackle the twiki advocacy
[13:13] SvenDowideit: so, of everything that has been done, what do we feel _really_ 
        worked?
[13:14] PeterThoeny: with this intro i suggest to go through each agenda item quickly 
        to see what we have and see if we find owners and agreement
[13:14] gmc: allright... so that brings the ball back to me, 
[13:14] gmc: ---+ 1. Blogging
[13:15] gmc: as said, the blog is there, i also started a support discussion topic: 
[13:15] *** Rodman has signed off IRC (Connection timed out).
[13:15] gmc: a related activity is the newsletter, which i would like to start with the 
        announcement of the beta release
[13:15] gmc: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter
[13:16] gmc: so far there are 3 blogs: General, Development and Usability.. the latter 
        has received no posts yet, i have to contact people about that
[13:16] gmc: the first has had community related news, and Development has been filled 
        by Crawford with two posts
[13:16] SvenDowideit: gmc, it feels awkward
[13:16] SvenDowideit: to seperate them
[13:16] gmc: SvenDowideit: what does?
[13:16] gmc: yes, on the one hand it does..
[13:16] SvenDowideit: i didn't even realise that CDot had posted anything
[13:16] SvenDowideit: cos i kept looking for the posts on the webhome
[13:17] Lavr_: No it is a bit hidden
[13:17] gmc: the rationale so far is that General is good for anyone, including managers
[13:17] SvenDowideit: why not have the webhome have all (as is normal)
[13:17] gmc: i am looking for a way to make it less hidden.. i changed the leftbar, but 
        perhaps a pointer at the top..
[13:17] ktwilight_: SvenDowideit, +1
[13:17] PeterThoeny: great initiative koen!
[13:17] gmc: i propose we take this discussion to the support topic, and just gloss over 
        it right now
[13:17] SvenDowideit: as an OSS project, either all are important
[13:17] PeterThoeny: how about renaming general to community?
[13:17] gmc: i am open to suggestions
[13:18] PeterThoeny: from a marketing perspective it is important to see that there is an 
        active community
[13:18] SvenDowideit: simple - use the standard form - main page aggregates all
[13:18] gmc: ok, my intention was to have higher-level summary of development things also 
        in General
[13:18] SvenDowideit: if you want to blinker your view, thats a user choice
[13:18] ktwilight_: gmc, please don't forget to reflect the changes on the RSS feeds ;)
[13:18] gmc: ok, i will change it to be like that
[13:18] gmc: also important: it should be on the homepage somehow
[13:18] PeterThoeny: yes, headlines will be listed on homepage
[13:19] ProductBox: Agree with Peter - it must look active - therefore more posts - a good 
        way of getting that is to have less blogs
[13:19] PeterThoeny: once we tackle the homepage
[13:19] gmc: allright, i will combine them
[13:19] ArthurClemens: I assume 3 blogs means: 3 categories
[13:19] gmc: correct
[13:19] ProductBox: If traffic really starts to increase then maybe we could split them 
        again - but that would be a nice problem to have :)
[13:20] *** Rodagain has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:20] gmc: wb rod
[13:20] ArthurClemens: I think we need to change the categories to tags
[13:20] gmc: well, we need tags in addition to categories i think
[13:20] gmc: the categories are like 'channels' on the one blog..
[13:20] gmc: tags can further folksonomate the posts
[13:20] PeterThoeny: idea: if we have many blog stories it might be better to show the 
        first paragraph of each story with a "read full story" link
[13:21] gmc: anyway, as i said, if you have an opinion on all of this, please join in on 
        http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter
[13:21] ArthurClemens: ko
[13:21] ArthurClemens: ok
[13:21] CDot: I think we need to get a few more people blogging. Just me and Koen is 
        awfully lonely (and pretty boring)
[13:21] CDot: we can worry about what colour it is later.
[13:21] gmc: CDot: i am planning on getting some more people to do so (looking at Kenneth :)
[13:21] Rodagain: agreed. I will post a piece this week
[13:21] PeterThoeny: yes, i will start as well
[13:22] Lavr_: I am writing release note at the moment ;-)
[13:22] Rodagain: thats a 150% in contributors right there :)
[13:22] gmc: another point i had: who should be able to post? anyone? just a select group? 
        any editorial control?
[13:22] SvenDowideit: its a wiki?
[13:22] ProductBox: Are we able to collect metrics from the blogs?  Ie how many people 
        have read a post
[13:22] gmc: and one more point: the blog articles shouldn't be duplicates of other pages, 
        it should summarize things that are going on, to keep the community updated (imho)
[13:23] SvenDowideit: WebStatistics for starters
[13:23] SvenDowideit: and then there's the awstats we have
[13:23] PeterThoeny: i think we should leave it pretty open, but restrict it to the 
        http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/TWikiCommunityGroup
[13:23] SvenDowideit: we can extend the data if needed y
[13:23] PeterThoeny: time check: +23 min
[13:23] gmc: yep
[13:23] gmc: let's move on plz, if we want to get at least halfway the agenda
[13:24] gmc: the get linked to other blogs & rss is something for when content starts 
        happening i think
[13:24] gmc: will keep it in mind
[13:24] gmc: ---+ 2. Home Page Redesign
[13:25] ktwilight_: just before that, can you please register with feedburner, as they 
        ping to various sites on updates
[13:25] gmc: i see arthur is our champion here, does he know that?
[13:25] Rodagain: the team had empowered Arthur to do this
[13:25] PeterThoeny: i would like to be added to the champion, besides arthur
[13:25] Rodagain: Arthur, can you help with the homepage?
[13:25] PeterThoeny: i tweaked the homepage over a long time for seo
[13:25] ArthurClemens: yes, I would like to
[13:26] PeterThoeny: with good results, 
        http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiGoogleRanking
[13:26] SvenDowideit: presumably the current one is a twiki topic somewhere?
[13:26] Rodagain: what can the rest of us to do help, besides staying out of the way:)
[13:26] ArthurClemens: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudience is a good start, 
        thanks Michael
[13:26] Rodagain: or do you have what you need Arthur?
[13:26] ArthurClemens: this is the direction to take first
[13:26] ArthurClemens: so please add to this
[13:26] ProductBox: Thanks Arthur - I think its important to work out who we want to speak 
        to and hence define the messages based on what those people need to hear
[13:26] PeterThoeny: as well as http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CustomerFocusedTWikiOrg
[13:27] Rodagain: looks like a good doc Arthur
[13:27] gmc: how long do we estimate this redesign process will take?
[13:27] PeterThoeny: i suggest to merge WebPageAudience into the existing 
        CustomerFocusedTWikiOrg topic since it is duplicate
[13:27] ArthurClemens: designing the homepage is really catering for user goals and paths
[13:28] ArthurClemens: so there is more than 1 page
[13:28] ArthurClemens: actually, the design of the homepage should come after the goals 
        and messages are defined
[13:28] *** Rodagain2 has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:28] gmc: let's not forget the community here: next to users, buyers, etc.. there are 
        potential community members we should try to catch effectively
[13:28] ArthurClemens: and after the other landing pages are designed
[13:29] PeterThoeny: sounds like a good approach
[13:29] *** RodBeckstrom1 has signed off IRC (Connection timed out).
[13:29] PeterThoeny: time check: +30 min
[13:30] gmc: ArthurClemens: do you feel comfortable setting a time path here? 
[13:30] ArthurClemens: I can start later in the week, depending on TinyMCE work that I 
        can jump in 
[13:30] gmc: ok, i think this item is in good hands now..
[13:30] gmc: shall we move on?
[13:30] ArthurClemens: I cannot promise an end date now
[13:30] PeterThoeny: i suggest to have only few people edit the homepage
[13:31] PeterThoeny: and the community edit the landing pages for each target group
[13:31] ArthurClemens: peter, let us team up about SEO later
[13:31] gmc: ---3. Spinning TWiki Globe
[13:31] ArthurClemens: I would prefer to have blog blurbs on the homepage though
[13:31] PeterThoeny: seo is important, as much as landing pages by target group
[13:31] Rodagain2: what is SEO?
[13:32] PeterThoeny: search engione optimization
[13:32] gmc: Search Engine Optimisation
[13:32] Rodagain2: thx
[13:32] gmc: so, the spinning globe, it is noted that SteveSoskin is on this
[13:32] ProductBox: I wasn't there in Rome - what is the spinning globe?
[13:32] PeterThoeny: yes, show blog roll on homepage (just headings)
[13:32] gmc: Rodagain2: do you have a link to the twitter globe you referred to?
[13:32] Rodagain2: re. spinning TWiki Globe, the idea is to have a globe like the one on 
        twitter TV that spins each time someone hits the twiki.org site from another part 
        of the world
[13:32] ArthurClemens: why a spinning globe?
[13:32] Rodagain2: looking for link now
[13:33] PeterThoeny: cool gadget
[13:33] gmc: ArthurClemens: the idea is to visualise the activity going on.. 
[13:33] PeterThoeny: slowly tunring globe
[13:33] PeterThoeny: show pin each time some accesses a twiki.org page
[13:33] SvenDowideit: mmmm
[13:33] ArthurClemens: I am not convinced this will convey any meaningful message, but who 
        knows?
[13:33] PeterThoeny: e.g. based on ip address
[13:33] SvenDowideit: wanky web2.0 crap?
[13:33] SvenDowideit: seems like avoiding focussing on twiki's core message
[13:34] ktwilight_: soudns like mappedup.com
[13:34] ArthurClemens: I may be deformed, but it sounds like 1998
[13:34] SvenDowideit: ArthurClemens, yup 
[13:34] ProductBox: I must admit that it doesn't sound *that* great
[13:34] CDot: 1984?
[13:34] SvenDowideit: i'd rather the open source twiki foccussed on being the best twiki 
        based site
[13:35] ktwilight_: +1
[13:35] SvenDowideit: than copy someone elses stuff
[13:35] ktwilight_: target market is different.
[13:35] gmc: ok, so the proposal is not received with enthusiasm
[13:35] PeterThoeny: it is debatable what good marketing moves are
[13:35] *** Rodagain3 has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:35] PeterThoeny: different priorities based on target group
[13:35] Rodagain3: sorry guys, my Mac IRC client keeps dropping me off
[13:35] SvenDowideit: twiki.org's an open source project
[13:35] gmc: Rodagain3: i'm afraid the globe is not received with much enthusiasm
[13:35] SvenDowideit: Rodagain, use xchat
[13:35] SvenDowideit: or aquachat
[13:36] Rodagain3: then we don't have to do it, let's drop off agenda
[13:36] gmc: time check: +37
[13:36] SvenDowideit: its quite nice
[13:36] ArthurClemens: or Colloquy
[13:36] Rodagain3: next agenda item :)
[13:36] gmc: ---+ 4. Testimonials
[13:36] SvenDowideit: main reason is - its not twiki.org..
[13:36] Rodagain3: thanks, will try a different IRC client next time
[13:36] ProductBox: Just on the subject of YouTube - why not have a demo of the Wiki on 
        YouTube?
[13:37] ProductBox: Or is that what is meant by testimonials?
[13:37] SvenDowideit: yep :)
[13:37] SvenDowideit: (one of)
[13:37] gmc: well, a testimonial is a very important person saying 'TWiki is great, i use 
        it all the time!'
[13:37] CDot: someone suggested a YouTube video competition
[13:37] ArthurClemens: I think they should tell what problems TWiki can solve
[13:38] gmc: on a related note, it seems people need tutorials to ease the steep learning 
        curve when first falling into TWiki
[13:38] Rodagain3: I contributed the idea because most of the world does not know how 
        great twiki is
[13:38] ArthurClemens: For example with advanced plugins
[13:38] PeterThoeny: we need more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRMAWJJTy2g
[13:38] Rodagain3: it may be something that twiki.net can help finance- in terms of 
        rewards if we make it a competition
[13:38] ProductBox: Tutorials!  Definatlely!
[13:38] ArthurClemens: (ActionTrackerPlugin perhaps?)
[13:38] Lavr_: I am still looking for a free software to record such thing
[13:38] Lavr_: one that works
[13:38] gmc: ok, so we have two things here:
[13:38] ktwilight_: posting it up on expertvillage.com might be a good idea too
[13:38] gmc: instruction videos and testimonials
[13:38] ArthurClemens: well, more like situations and what the product/plugin can solve
[13:39] Rodagain3: we could have a contest for twiki functionality too if we wanted
[13:39] ArthurClemens: instruction only if things are very difficult to use
[13:39] ProductBox: A demo videos - like the vapourware QED Wiki has
[13:39] ArthurClemens: vaporware?
[13:39] Rodagain3: or like the ones other wiki companies have :)
[13:39] SvenDowideit: y, it would be good to outmarket ibm
[13:39] Rodagain3: except the TWiki one will be real :)
[13:39] ArthurClemens: QED is not for real?
[13:40] Rodagain3: it's really a mash up platform under development
[13:40] SvenDowideit: not really
[13:40] ProductBox: Sorry - a mis type - I meant one of those videos that mixes someone 
        talking with screen demo in realtime - that works really well 
[13:40] SvenDowideit: its been under development for about 4 years
[13:40] SvenDowideit: with no actual releases
[13:40] ArthurClemens: aha
[13:40] Rodagain3: exactly
[13:40] ArthurClemens: I already figured the target group is really narrow
[13:40] SvenDowideit: i think it was created to get an australian gov contract actually
[13:40] Rodagain3: thus my proposal that twiki.net or someone else could sponsor a 
        competition with prizes
[13:41] ArthurClemens: great Rod
[13:41] gmc: i like the idea
[13:41] PeterThoeny: jotspot had a nice recorded demo given to a journalist
[13:41] gmc: Rodagain3: are you volunteering to champion this issue?
[13:41] Rodagain3: if we offered a $1,000 first prize, $500 second and $250 third would 
        that be enough to attract interest
[13:41] Rodagain3: yes, I am volunteering to champion this
[13:41] Rodagain3: I can come back with more concrete ideas.
[13:41] Rodagain3: I would think ONE contest at at a time
[13:41] Rodagain3: they key is our getting it out to the community so people can compete
[13:42] gmc: i'm not sure, money is not my prime motivator, but i think that is quite a 
        nice sum, it depends on who you want to attract of course
[13:42] colas: a nice idea would be to offer "beautifying" a presentation
[13:42] Rodagain3: quick question- what is right first prize level?
[13:42] colas: so that geeks/nerd could present ideas
[13:42] ktwilight_: what is the competition on/about?
[13:42] Rodagain3: colas-  please explain
[13:42] gmc: indeed, perhaps we need to think non-monetary for prizes
[13:42] *** Lynnwood has joined #twiki_marketing.
[13:42] Rodagain3: First competition theme: "Why I love TWiki and how I use it in my work"
[13:42] ArthurClemens: a trip to X
[13:42] colas: oRod: offer to revamp a presentation
[13:42] PeterThoeny: hi lynnwood!
[13:42] Rodagain3: all contest content to be submitted on Youtube and registered on a 
        TWiki page
[13:43] gmc: hi Lynnwood we're at item 4 here on 
        http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMinutes2007x09x03
[13:43] Rodagain3: and a community group (perhaps this marketing group) chooses the winer
[13:43] Rodagain3: I mean winner :)
[13:43] gmc: :)
[13:43] *** Rodagain has signed off IRC (Connection timed out).
[13:43] gmc: ok, proposal: Rod creates a Codev topic to work this out
[13:43] PeterThoeny: time check: +45 min (15 min to go)
[13:43] Rodagain3: fair enough (with Peter's help :) 
[13:43] Rodagain3: next topic
[13:43] PeterThoeny: :-)
[13:43] gmc: PeterThoeny: i was going to say that! :)
[13:43] ktwilight_: interesting, would be interesting how an intranet wiki would present 
        their wiki
[13:44] gmc: ---+ 5. TWiki.org Performance
[13:44] ktwilight_: that's such a mouth full :/
[13:44] gmc: is this something we should discuss now and here?
[13:44] Rodagain3: it's up to them, they can always put up a secret veil :)
[13:44] ktwilight_: :)
[13:44] gmc: short summary: there will be a lot of hardware coming in soon
[13:44] Rodagain3: lets run faster
[13:44] ArthurClemens: very good news
[13:44] PeterThoeny: not much update besides what was announced at rome meetup
[13:45] ArthurClemens: and essential for first impression
[13:45] SvenDowideit: guess i'm curious
[13:45] ktwilight_: yup yup cool stuff
[13:45] SvenDowideit: who's running the new servers?
[13:45] SvenDowideit: (as in doing the admin work?)
[13:45] PeterThoeny: besides new hardware we should also look into selected caching
[13:45] PeterThoeny: i have one person local who can help with initial setup
[13:46] PeterThoeny: we need one person who does the ongoing sysadmin
[13:46] SvenDowideit: I can voluenteer :) but i can't spell
[13:46] gmc: is this something the current team can handle?
[13:46] PeterThoeny: the new serves are hosted at the plug & play tech center
[13:46] CDot: is this marketing? (trying to stay on track)
[13:46] gmc: it isn't really i think
[13:46] SvenDowideit: or moreso - there's the team of twiki oss admins
[13:46] PeterThoeny: a tech incubation center
[13:47] PeterThoeny: twiki.net is located in that building
[13:47] gmc: ok, i agree with CDot, this is not marketing!
[13:47] gmc: let's move on..
[13:47] Rodagain3: time check: 48 and 3 more agenda items to go :)
[13:47] gmc: ---+ 6. Press Releases
[13:47] PeterThoeny: crawford: this is marketing (how many people are turned off by the 
        slow twiki.org)?
[13:47] gmc: (i really hope we get to 8 :)
[13:48] Rodagain3: onto 6!! gallantly we shall follow Koen!
[13:48] gmc: it is tangent to marketing, yes, but i think it is on the right track already
[13:48] Rodagain3: next
[13:48] PeterThoeny: i was driving this for 4.0 and 4.1 with help by others
[13:48] Rodagain3: what do we want to do on press releases?
[13:48] PeterThoeny: press release of 4.2 needs to be coordinated
[13:48] PeterThoeny: i can drive this again
[13:48] SvenDowideit: we'd like a marketing pro teach us how to do it for real
[13:48] gmc: we should also try to get press releases out locally (translate, local 
        magazines)
[13:49] *** Rodagain2 has signed off IRC (Connection timed out).
[13:49] Rodagain3: great idea Koen!
[13:49] PeterThoeny: one primary purpose: get new production releases noted by the press 
        and by bloggers
[13:49] gmc: time check: +50, 10 mins to go
[13:49] PeterThoeny: yes, koen, that is what we are trying to do
[13:49] ArthurClemens: local companies that use TWiki are great attention catchers for 
        local media
[13:49] ProductBox: Sven - a marketing pro would probably start by asking if you really 
        understand your audience and the messages you want to convey
[13:49] PeterThoeny: read http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiAdvocacy04x01
[13:49] SvenDowideit: ProductBox, yep.
[13:49] PeterThoeny: with translations into several languages
[13:50] ktwilight_: do we have a list of (wiki enthusiasts) bloggers to push the release 
        too?
[13:50] CDot: ktwilight_: good idea; viral marketing
[13:50] Rodagain3: no, ktwillight but that is a GREAT idea
[13:50] Rodagain3: I should say, we don't have a blogger list that I know of
[13:50] PeterThoeny: what we could do: besides press releases at production releases, do 
        press releases for major twiki deployments
[13:50] PeterThoeny: at major companies
[13:50] gmc: true, that also adds to the buzz
[13:51] Rodagain3: good point
[13:51] PeterThoeny: rod: read http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiAdvocacy04x01
[13:51] ktwilight_: it'd be a good idea to invite a few individuals who are very keen in 
        wiki (and twiki), let them have a spin and make (or force) them to blog about it
[13:51] gmc: so peter, will you continue to champion this issue (with help from others?)
[13:51] Rodagain3: \
[13:51] ktwilight_: once it hit on slashdot, digg or reddit, SEO will pick up
[13:51] ktwilight_: too.
[13:51] gmc: can we make a link with our army of translators here for getting the releases 
        out in different languages?
[13:52] PeterThoeny: yes, i can champion that, but would like to have one backup
[13:52] Rodagain3:    I believe our collective relationships with bloggers is really key
[13:52] PeterThoeny: ProductBox: would you be interested?
[13:52] Rodagain3: we can win by building a great starfish network here
[13:52] gmc: perhaps ProductBox & ktwilight_ are interested in helping you out here?
[13:52] PeterThoeny: starfish, rod likes that :-)
[13:53] ktwilight_: am actually waiting for the release, so i can have some meat on my 
        blog.
[13:53] gmc: (still have to order the book, good to remind me!)
[13:53] SvenDowideit: i always wondered - are starfish tastey?
[13:53] ktwilight_: but i doubt a person such as myself is enough ;)
[13:53] gmc: time check: +55, 5 mins to go
[13:53] ktwilight_: SvenDowideit, i wouldlike to know that too :)
[13:53] gmc: i think they taste awful, but i hate seafood anyway :)
[13:53] PeterThoeny: (uni is very tasty)
[13:53] ProductBox: Peter - this is my first time with an IRC meeting and I've lost the 
        plot a bit - please restate the question
[13:54] gmc: ProductBox: i was asking peter to champion the press releases, the question 
        is whether you want to assist/ cochampion
[13:54] PeterThoeny: (uni = sea urchin, not really a starfish)
[13:54] gmc: ok, in the interest of time here.. let's stay focussed for 5 more mins
[13:54] PeterThoeny: ProductBox: would you be interested in championing the press release 
        effort, together with me?
[13:55] ProductBox: I'd like to assist but I am a real newcomer to TWiki - I don't want 
        to commit myself when I don't know what is involved
[13:55] ProductBox: Peter - could we talk abotu this off line?
[13:55] PeterThoeny: yes
[13:55] gmc: ok,
[13:55] PeterThoeny: next
[13:55] gmc: in the interest of time, plus Carlo is not here, shoudl we skip ---+ 7. 
        Usability ?
[13:55] gmc: and move that to the next meeting..?
[13:56] PeterThoeny: ok
[13:56] gmc: ---+ 8. Merchandise
[13:56] gmc: 2 minutes left
[13:56] SvenDowideit: thats cheating
[13:56] gmc: SvenDowideit: ?
[13:56] SvenDowideit: ignore :)
[13:57] SvenDowideit: usbsticks & minicd's would be really sweet
[13:57] gmc: so, do we want merchandise, and if so: how are we going to organise the 
        financial side of it? do we want profit or just be able to pay for what we buy?
[13:57] SvenDowideit: cafepress.com?
[13:59] Lavr_: The TWiki on a USB stick would be a really cool product.
[13:59] CDot: profit would be nice; something to spend on competitions etc
[13:59] gmc: SvenDowideit: cafepress can cater for shirts/mugs etc.. but there is a limit 
        to what they can offer
[13:59] SvenDowideit: y? ok
[13:59] ArthurClemens: does this stuff sell?
[13:59] gmc: that's also a question..
[14:00] gmc: i for one am a sucker for merchandise, and am happy to pay outrageous prices 
        for a tshirt if it benefits the project
[14:00] SvenDowideit: as i already have 5 TWiki t-shirts (using the rainbow hands logo)
[14:00] CDot: depends on how well designed it is
[14:00] gmc: i have none, and wouldn't know where to order one
[14:00] ktwilight_: there's a twiki t-shirt?!
[14:00] * ktwilight_ didn't know that
[14:00] ArthurClemens: generally a logo on white :-(
[14:00] PeterThoeny: merchandise brings another question: done by individuals without 
        profit, or create a non-profit wiki org that manages funds?
[14:00] ktwilight_: the usb stick is a great idea. i wouldn't go for the minicds though
[14:00] SvenDowideit: it's covering up my manly chest hair!
[14:00] gmc: PeterThoeny: that is a very important q indeed
[14:01] CDot: the latter, I would say
[14:01] ProductBox: Good point Peter: this could make this merchandise thing a bit of a 
        time/resource swallower
[14:01] ktwilight_: have it go with twiki.net?
[14:01] gmc: well
[14:01] CDot: though the tax position of non-profits in the US is non-trivial :-(
[14:01] Lavr_: Many of my users miss a TWiki to take with them when they travel or sit at 
        home w/o connection. I actually think that would be a real product
[14:01] gmc: setting up a founddation thingy just to handle the merchandise is quickly 
        done
[14:01] gmc: i'd even sponsor the costs of getting the proper signatures
[14:01] SvenDowideit: especially as the boeing 777's have usb ports :)
[14:01] gmc: :)
[14:01] ktwilight_: only on s'pore airlines.
[14:01] ktwilight_: uh, nm me.
[14:02] SvenDowideit: you fly anything else??
[14:02] SvenDowideit: ;p
[14:02] ktwilight_: i only fly m'sian airlines ;)
[14:02] gmc: i tend to favour setting up a foundation like entity that handles the finance
[14:02] SvenDowideit: if s'pore airlines don't go there, i have to ride my bike!!
[14:02] ktwilight_: haha
[14:02] SvenDowideit: i agree, i'd like to see a twiki foundation
[14:02] PeterThoeny: (got a call from rod, he is kicked out again; will try to get back 
        in)
[14:02] gmc: a simple one, with just a simple purpose.. buying and selling merchandise
[14:03] SvenDowideit: to ensure the continuity of the oss project and its servers 
[14:03] SvenDowideit: even if wikiring and twiki.net go away 
[14:03] PeterThoeny: even before we go for non-profit org we can do something for the 
        community
[14:04] *** Rodagain4 has joined #twiki_marketing.
[14:04] SvenDowideit: right now, the horribly slow twiki.org is not dependant on a 
        company's existance 
[14:04] gmc: ok... we are at +64, -4 minutes to go.. i'm happy to continue discuss the 
        foundation issue
[14:04] PeterThoeny: i think t-shirts and mugs are appreciated by the community
[14:04] gmc: but if people have to leave, we should wrap up
[14:04] SvenDowideit: 7am for me :}
[14:05] PeterThoeny: rod welcome back
[14:05] gmc: Rodagain4: we are discussing whether we want a TWiki foundation
[14:05] ProductBox: Before we wrap - Peter could I have your phone number?  Or you can 
        have mine if you want.  (Tried to set up a private channel but IRC would not 
        allow it.)
[14:05] ArthurClemens: I prefer to join my bed
[14:05] Rodagain4: thats a community question
[14:05] ArthurClemens: after y'days taxes
[14:05] Rodagain4: may require appreciable legal and other work
[14:05] SvenDowideit: considering the EU bias of many of the people here
[14:05] gmc: ok, proposal: i'll get things started on a more in-depth discussion on 
        foundation
[14:05] ArthurClemens: very constructive meeting this
[14:06] SvenDowideit: maybe we should see about doing the non-profit in the EU
[14:06] ArthurClemens: bye for now
[14:06] PeterThoeny: ProductBox: +1-408-5108-505 (switch the last two groups, for spam 
        prevention)
[14:06] SvenDowideit: later :)
[14:06] Rodagain4: agreed. we have numerous action items and champions
[14:06] gmc: by ArthurClemens thanks for joining!
[14:06] ktwilight_: has anyone considered the legal and tax aspects of the options on 
        twiki foundation?
[14:06] *** ArthurClemens has signed off IRC ().
[14:06] Rodagain4: a great first call- huge appreciation to everyone from this end
[14:06] PeterThoeny: the twiki foundation is a good question, but off-topic
[14:06] SvenDowideit: call it marketing :)
[14:07] PeterThoeny: i think we had a good first meeting on marketing!
[14:07] gmc: absolutely.. 
[14:07] ktwilight_: :)
[14:07] gmc: let's meet again in 2 weeks, same place, same time
[14:07] ProductBox: Very interesting first experience of an IRC meeting - I thought it 
        was good!  :)
[14:07] PeterThoeny: next meeting: in two weeks, same time
[14:07] gmc: sol that's september 17th, 20:00 GMT
[14:07] PeterThoeny: thanks all!
[14:07] gmc: i hope i did well as a facilitator, i feel i sucked at it :)
[14:07] Rodagain4: agreed gmc, thanks for staying up late and for facilitating- tag 
        your it!
[14:07] Lavr_: Bye all
[14:07] gmc: Rodagain4: looking forward to your minutes :)
[14:07] PeterThoeny: (now off with my son to target shooting)
[14:07] Rodagain4: you were a great facilitator- we got to every item
[14:08] Rodagain4: they are functional but will not be of literary quality :)
[14:08] PeterThoeny: we could try phone call
[14:08] gmc: as long as you've got the action items + the people who promised stuff :)
[14:08] PeterThoeny: next time
[14:08] PeterThoeny: but question is how
[14:08] gmc: at least we have the irc log..
[14:08] gmc: PeterThoeny: perhaps skype... 
[14:08] PeterThoeny: we have a us conf dial we could use
[14:08] gmc: although that is kinda sucky..
[14:09] PeterThoeny: but this means a long distance call for all in europe and asia
[14:09] gmc: having to dial to the us kind of frightens ppl off i think
[14:09] Rodagain4: how about a skype conf call?
[14:09] gmc: tends to be a bit sucky sometimes, but we could give it a try indeed
[14:09] ktwilight_: always a good option
[14:10] gmc: i also can open a teamspeak server
[14:10] SvenDowideit: quake4?
[14:10] SvenDowideit: secondlife?
[14:10] SvenDowideit: :}
[14:10] ktwilight_: :)
[14:10] gmc: hehe
[14:10] gmc: we should meet in a moo next time :))
[14:11] ktwilight_: k, time to retire. gnite!
[14:11] *** Rodagain3 has signed off IRC (Connection timed out).
[14:11] SvenDowideit: giggle
[14:11] *** ktwilight_ has left #twiki_marketing.
[14:11] gmc: ktwilight_: night!
[14:11] gmc: oh
[14:11] Rodagain4: sweet dreams to all in Europe!
[14:11] gmc: ok, i'm going to join that body in bed for a little warmth now..
[14:12] gmc: going to check my todo's from this meeting tomorrow and act on them
[14:12] gmc: bye all!
[14:12] Rodagain4: this is a great community- so many action oriented people - its 
        great!
[14:12] SvenDowideit: mmm, 7am, i could go back to bed :)
[14:12] Rodagain4: gday mate (as in you have a good one ahead of you:)
[14:13] CDot: BTW pre-packaged UK non-profit; off the shelf for £42
[14:13] SvenDowideit: grin
[14:13] SvenDowideit: it looks lovery and cold and rainy atm
[14:13] Rodagain4: wow, the US needs to learn from that one
[14:13] SvenDowideit: CDot, cool!
[14:13] SvenDowideit: though a real EU country would be better 
[14:13] CDot: Rodagain4: your legal system is still catchingup .... ;-)
[14:13] gmc: in holland, it'll cost you 100 - 300 euros
[14:14] Rodagain4: who got it started anyway ? :)
[14:14] CDot: damn those romans.... 
[14:14] Rodagain4: I won't blame the Romans, but there was a part of their great 
        empire....
[14:14] SvenDowideit: romans? what did they ever do for us?
[14:14] Rodagain4: where it was cold and foggy and really smart and rebellious people 
        lived ....
[14:15] SvenDowideit: the romans conquererd finland?
[14:15] Rodagain4: who decided to make a little empire of their own until...
[14:15] CDot: nah, he must mean Belgium
[14:15] SvenDowideit: oh.... india
[14:15] Rodagain4: oh well, it's almost bedtime here now too- nap time that is
[14:15] SvenDowideit: nite :)
[14:15] Rodagain4: i love India- we should do a TWIki Summit there sometime
[14:16] SvenDowideit: y, twiki needs to get seriously into asia
[14:16] Rodagain4: FYI, Persistent and Mozilla are both interested in being part of our 
        next Summit in Feb :)
[14:16] SvenDowideit: there aren't enough contributors from that region
[14:16] CDot: or from the US :-(
[14:16] gmc: language barrier (asia)
[14:16] Rodagain4: ??? check out the 2 million twiki pages in India
[14:16] SvenDowideit: the US has economy troubles
[14:16] SvenDowideit: and no twiki.org contributors
[14:17] Rodagain4: clearly
[14:17] SvenDowideit: until they help make twiki.org better, they're just taking what 
        they get
[14:17] Rodagain4: I'm feeling outnumbered
[14:17] SvenDowideit: and not able to drive
[14:17] Rodagain4: or should I say "ringed?"
[14:17] SvenDowideit: hehe
[14:17] Rodagain4: great call guys
[14:17] CDot: south america could do more as well. Next TWiki summit in Caracas, hosted 
        by Rafael.
[14:18] Rodagain4: it's not 7 AM here so I better catch up with the Europeans and get 
        some work done!  Do count me in for Caracas though!
[14:18] Rodagain4: Ciao
[14:18] SvenDowideit: later :)
[14:18] CDot: while we are all here.... who has access to t.o these days?
[14:18] CDot: I mean at the file level?
[14:19] SvenDowideit: me, kenneth, um arthur
[14:19] SvenDowideit: peter
[14:19] * CDot moved to #twiki
[14:19] SvenDowideit: i'm going to add _all_ the people that are in the admin team
[14:27] *** CDot has left #twiki_marketing.