Hi Michael. * ArthurClemens (n=ArthurCl@natpool-1.lostboys.nl) has joined #twiki_marketing good evening Hi there Ollie Hi Arthur Hi everybody hi arthur, lars, martin, michael, oliver, sven (here?), tictric (twiki.org user name?) Who is facilitating, who is taking minutes? ManfredMislik thanks manfred i can facilitate if you wish Hi all! Hi Martin manfred, could you give a brief intro? e.g. what you are using twiki for, your interest in the community etc Sounds good, Peter. Can you see if you can make time at the end for us to discuss AOB * OliverKrueger has a hard time limit in +57min. :-( michael: ok who is taking the minutes? Hi, I'm actually still evaluating TWiki. I was just interested as I saw about that meeting here see agenda at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x02x11 Peter, when you say taking minutes do you mean just taking the IRC log and attaching to the meeting page? I created a new topic (number 9). I hope, that is okay. ok tictric, sounds good. this is the bi-weekly meeting where we discuss marketing stuff (we also have bi-weekly dev meetings) no, somepne should take notes during the meeting, e.g. update the bullet points tictric: I have been evaluating a lot in summer last year. TWiki is a good choice. :-) anybody taking the notes? How long is this meeting supposed to take? if <60min, I can take notes. Thank you Oliver! es, goal is 60 min thank you oliver! ok, lets get started anything else to add to the agenda? (this is the first time im taking notes, hope I get it right). :) Thanks, oliver. ---++ 1. Blogging What do you mean by this topic? Do you want to have people create weblog-issues? I don't think GMC is on this chat on twiki? yes, koen is not here today we have a bit a slowdown on blog stories Martin: see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/WebHome * AmirShobeiri (n=amir@63.146.69.17) has joined #twiki_marketing hi amir I think we have a slow down because many people don't know how to contribute we are currently on agenda item 1: blogging and it is not on the homepage of t.o. How many people here would know how to create a blog entry on the TWIki blog? How do you contribute? My point exactly... there is a small link on the homepage may be a quick fix is to add a linked logo to the blog web? I mean entries * OliverKrueger doesnt know yet. just a large button will do yes I like the blog. :-) good idea Hmmmnnn... I think we need more than a button No matter how large No! We simply need a big RSS-icon. i think the "how to post" is not the issue yes, an intro text Those who know Weblogs know RSS. follow the link in the sidebar and fill out the form Where could the intro text go "Do you have an experience to share? Don't hesitate and write a blog article" i agree with martin, adding a big rss logo to the frontpage as a quick solution I agree too - as long as we view it as a first step and look into a blog roll at the time we have the .org redesign And recognise that we need a little bit of a tutorial (or at least brief instructions) We could also have a box with the most recent 3 items. arthur, you mean to add this to the .org homepage? Hello guys well, it is quite straightforward I hope, I may say "we". :-) Hi Amir, we are talking about blogging great, thank you http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/BlogPostCreator Michael, I have sent you a private IM asking about the twikiTV login but... writers need to be a TWikiCommunityGroup member we limit the blog web to the twikicommunitygroup did you get my message? where can they apply? new writers? Is it allowed to post German posts? i think it needs to be spelled out in the post blog page how to get the membership Amir, no. But see YtcYouTubeAccounts on marketing web hmm, not sure if just german, possibly english, followed by german? Thank you Michael I think having just the headlines of the last 3 posts just before 'What does it look like' is not a bad idea action item for peter: add big rss icon to .org home and encouraging note to particitape Amir: please let's make sure we coordinate our actions, OK? Not a quick solution, but we can use the http header and origin ip to filter posts from different languages. I have German blog posts, that could be slightly modified and inserted. See here: http://blog.seibert-media.net/2008/01/arbeitstechniken/wikis-sind-der-kitt-der-intranets-zusammenhaelt/ http://blog.seibert-media.net/2007/11/arbeitstechniken/warum-in-jedes-intranet-ein-wiki-integriert-sein-sollte/ sure, peter informed me its on the agenda for this meeting I would say, they fit okay in the weblog. what do you think about martins question? how many people read German? on twiki.org? The first one is already available as a podcast. German posts - I think we should keep TWiki.org as english Peter does. :-) would be ok as a syndicated feed somewhere Who cares as long it is not so much, that it is annoying those who do not understand. 1. have german and english articles; 2. have english summary on top followed by german blog post; 3. have full english and german text; 4. don't have german posts I would be ready to create an english management summary for every post. I don't want to appear Xenophobic but I think that non-english posts could be a bit confusing for people tend for 3. time check: +19 min We should not mix up languages if we are not sure, the reader understands the language. I agree - TWiki.org is pretty confusing as it is XING does that already. even if the read understands all languages, the mix looks a little bit ugly to me. Yes, I agree s/read/reader/ Is number 2 an option? Can we take a consensus here? i am for 3. I vote for 4 4 2 only if we have a seperate channel for each language I would be willing to provide at least 1 item per month in a German channel. Is there another (german) blog that the article could be posted on? 2 is ok for me if it is clear the fulltext will be german Then there could be an executive summary (in english) with a link to the german blog - how about that? martin: i am surepeople help fixing english (in case this is an issue) i like michael's suggestion I wouldn't mix up languages as well. MichaelÃs got a point Perhaps we could have a pre-blog page (where people post half-baked/half-translated articles and other people could fully bake them a short summary of the blog post in english, pointing to the full article on another site (with indication that this is a german post) Moving from half-baked to fully baked is what wikis are all about after all! * OliverKrueger votes for the pre-blog page Peter: No one wants to simply translate something. You have to pay for that. That is what I believe. The German content is available. I could have more produced. yes, that is a good idea to How about counting the votes? :) (the idea of blog posts in staging area) it shuold be primarily english, then if there is other language that would be extra. sound fine for me. 3. 2 x 3, 2x 4, 2x 2 Means: no plain German posts, right? even distribution essentially Great. :( sorry I would offer: I create a management summary, that has a decent length for each article. ---++ 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign Well, if the exec summary was in English with a link to another blog then at least that would drive traiffic to the other blog That has got to be good, right? It should be content for twiki. agreed Hang on Peter, what are we going to do about this issue I know we need to move on but... I have added a header to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/WebHome My suggestion: please correct my english I created the two topics. allow summary posts pointing to german posts on other sites Then we discuss ... in a topic, that I create and link in the meeting topic. Okay? Arthur - you are a genius! :) looks good arthur (possibly use a bit less vertical screen real estate) Martin, I don't quite understand you (Sorry) (or a box on the right side?) What I mean is, that I will create two topics, that I believe fit in this discussion and its votes. Then you can comment on these issues ... Please can we not discuss detail? I am sure we can make it look nicer later. But for now, what Arthur has posted will do the job does anyone object to the idea of having summary posts in english, with link to german article on otehr sites? I can live with that. ok, then lets do that me too No prob back to: ---++ 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign arthur, can you summarize the status? time check: +30 min ArthurClemens? y http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudienceSiteStructure we have set up the structure of "About TWiki" this has lead me to first sketches of a section homepage http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg though the design is still premature wiki.org is slow... twiki.org for instance http://twiki.org/p/pub/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg/Design_TWikiDotOrg7.png That's why we need to leave time to discuss point 4 ;) nicely laid out! Yes, looks nice and clean :) point 4? I am still hesitating about the red The red looks pretty good IMHO ah, got it, michael corresponds to the yellow/red twiki logo. somewhat other layout: http://twiki.org/p/pub/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg/Design_TWikiDotOrg13c.png as MD has written, too light * gmc (n=gmc@chasmcity.sonologic.nl) has joined #twiki_marketing but the breadcrumb and tags have their own space Looks very nice. There should be a small text stating what TWiki is or the mission statement..if About is the default page, I mean hi, sorry for being late.. had an irl meeting, am on umts now so might be unresponsive for times + working on a customer firewall that needs rebooting for which the nights are best LarsEik: you are right welcome Koen looks nice Hi Koen Is the "TWiki Open source project" the bit about how you (as a casual newcomer) could get involved in helping out with TWIki? Hi there Koen arthur, do you plan for a twiki.org specific skin? just the .org homepage in this look? yes, that should lead you also to Commuity hi koen Can I suggest we have something a little more user freindly then? yes, this will be a derivate of pattern skin How about "get involved" or something like that? A call to action all suggestions are welcome yes, recruiting is very important at this stage of the project It would be good to have triggers dispersed on the right topics so at least temporarily we should cater for it This is what Ubuntu do: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate arthur, what kind of support do you need most from us at this time? these kind of ideas and suggestions omissions in the site structure ubuntu site looks soooooooooo clean Yep - the power of "white space" I like it Shall we discuss this here or on the topic page? arthur, the wind river's intranet twiki has a similar theme like the ubuntu site: a big logo (image, graph...) as part of the skin to identify where you are time check: +40min was well received nice Ubuntu is all roundish even with some lines, many rounded corners, I think that is a clue ok, next topic ---++ 3. Testimonials Aha, that's me supporting topic http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/YouTubeDemoContest2008 A bit of a "teaser" topic I am hoping to start the contest this week - I just need to discuss a few things with TWiki.net Basically this is going to be very community driven though yes, the meet up video from November I am ready with the edited videos to upload on our appropriate You Tube account Amir, could we discuss this in a private channel? sure is the idea to have different types of videos on youtube's twikitv? such as contest, meetups? Thanks As I said on the YouTubeDemoContest2008 page, I would like to use the community to define what is a "qualifying" entry I would envisage that we would be able to discuss the "qualifying-ness" of entries on a TWIki page or even on IRC like this Also I don't plan on publishing an guidelines on what sort of videos are likely to go down well question is: should we mix contest and other videos in teh same twikitv user (and exclude other stuff from contest), or have only contest stuff only in twikitv? Because it is the COMMUNITY that will decide what videos go forward to the second round of judging Good question - it is possible to do both yes, it should be community driven We could have different playlists on TWiki TV That would work - but it could take focus away from the contest from our side, the four videos from the meet-up have been approved and edited to be posted on Youtube I have twikiMeetUp account Amir, what was the other YouTube account that you created? on you tube who is creating the voting page on twiki.org? i thik it would be best to post it on that Peter: I guess I should create it we can use tags to differentiate between contest and community videos, no? time check: +46 min My vote is to use separate YouTube accounts for now Michael, TWikiMeetUps After the contest is over we could merge them the voting can happen on the YouTubeDemoContest2008 page i agree i'm wondering though, are we uploading the contest videos or are the contestants? i'd say the latter so I can post them on the account i made TWikiMeetUp on youtube GMC - if you want to enter, you must upload the video under your own user name then we can merge them on TWikiTV Then I will come and list your entry on the TWikiTV page as a favourite/playlist not sure if uploading twice is good perfect! ah ok, sorry do we have a tag for youtubers? with tagging we can group all contest videos Don't worry guys - I'll post instructions etc in a few days on the page previously mentioned so videos can be found? well if we do add them, it will be only on two accounts twikiTV and TWikiMeetUps such as with a twikicontest2008 tag twikivideocontest2008 or twikivideocontest2008q1 tag Amir, yes two accounts - but suggest after contest is finished we'll consolidate on one account ok, sounds good I assume people can use other video sites like Vimeo? Then we can concentrate on driving traffic to just one YouTube page anything else? next? so, what's the plan.. are we going to announce the contest or are we (community) first going to decide on criteria for qualification? I want to put them up, then we can refine them, when we merge it to one account like a test run GMC - I'd like to announce the contest asap That will generate momentum that will act as a spur for us to get our a** in gear Who will post a video? Are you sure we get at least 3-5 videos? yes, announce on 2008-02-14 as michael wrote in the codev topic valentines day :-) A memorable date! (twiki and chocolate, does that mix?) (Writes note to self: must buy flowers for wife) (just got a wisdom teeth pulled, i'm not reeady for chocolate yet :) TWiki Toblerone? mc: get lindth, it melts in your mouth! do we really need written criteria? OliverKrueger: perhaps not.. Oliver - written criteria will be very light how many people will upload a 10 second nothing to receive the free t-shirt? yes, very short criteria i think michael and amir should take that offline because that is the only danger, right, that there are a lot of free t-shirts needed GMC - but that is the point! The community would say "NO you cannot have a t shirt" We, the community, police this another thing: community as defined by TWikiCommunityGroup ? ep i think that is a good suggestion, simple time check: +53min ---++ 4. TWiki.org Performance this is me I agree with the suggestion we are still waiting for sun to deliver the 3 webservers and the nas storage server I am waiting for http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg 12 Minutes now ... :-) (just for the notes: michael and amir take care of the (light) criterias?) i pinged sun this morning Oliver - yes we will action tem for peter: create topic in codev web to update on status ok with all the hardware we got/will get we have plenty of power Peter, I thought that there was a problem with where we actually physically locate the equipment? actually, way to much storage Weren't you looking around for a cheaper host? yes, we shopped around, and came back to plug and play for hosting OK - probably easier for you so that's good they are good in terms of hosting costs twiki.net and p&p is sharing hosting cost for half a rack That's very nice of you (and P&P) :) * tictric has quit ("ciao") on .org twiki version, action item for peter to update to 4.2 within 2 weeks that is all on hosting Peter, do you have an estimate for the delivery of the Sun stuff? so that leaves you with the other halve rack? we first looked into a full rack, needed with the big x4500 but that is total overkill (power consumption, disk space), we can cut hosting in half without the x4500 the nas has plenty storage anyway before we go to next agenda item time check: +59 min oliver needs to go who is taking over note taking from here on? I can spent another 15min ah, thanks we probably can finish within 15 ---++ 5. Press Releases but not an additional hour. ;) Peter, do you know if we got any coverage at all re 4.2? as many know, we had some ups and down on 4.2 press release no, we did not get a direct coverage as a result unfortunately I support the mentioning of companies, that support TWiki. i did not even send out the dutch release du eto the controversies Well there's a 4.2.1 coming up, right :) so for next time we need to refine our messaging, get more connected to press, and be a bit more bold with the message Lars: LOL Be a bit more bold? I agree with Peter. Scream! :-) Advertise. :-) It is difficult to be bold without having some agreed process for agreeing the content of press releases I don't want to appear to be a boring old fuddy duddy but I think this relates to: this is my personal take: not mentioning companies involved with the twiki project is not in a win/win spirit, we lose press opportunities that can help get the twiki name spread TWikiGovernance and CommunityDecisions Hopefully we can discuss these soon right now, there seem to be a few developers that are _not_ working on twiki I agree that we must send out a message that TWiki is broadly supported until the TWikiGovernance issue is resolved yes, this will be covered in the summit on thu and fri specifically because expectations were not made common Sven: Please carry on I think I am a bit of a lone voice with respect for the need for TWikiGovernance * Phluphy (n=chatzill@ip68-13-210-237.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #twiki_marketing MichaelCorbett, no, not so much lone MichaelCorbett: i don't think so I suggest that we devote 30 minutes of our next marketing meeting to discuss governance issues Hi Sven. Perhaps this is the only way we can start to discuss it? Michael: I like TWikiGovernance also. But until then I would let those who contribute decide who may be in the press release. we will organize a conf call on thu where we can discuss this I believe: Good people do the right things intuitively. Thanks Peter, that sounds like a good idea Martin: TWiki.org is full of good people I just woke, but i think its important to realise that there is unhappyness with how things were done and thus something needs to change Guidelines are better. But as long as they are not there. Go without them. But do not hit the breaks for fear. But the events of the last few weeks have shown that we need some proper guidelines just blindly suggesting good people do good things does not get expectations aligned * Lynnwood (n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood) has joined #twiki_marketing Hi there Lynnwood Talk about good timing! Hi Lynwood! Guess what we were discussing??!