--- Day changed Mon Feb 25 2008
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21:00 < PeterThoeny_> hi koen, michael, sven (already up?), vicki!
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21:00 < gmc> hello there
21:00 < ArthurClemens_> hello
21:00 < MichaelCorbett> Hi there everyone
21:00 < VickiBrown> hi
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21:01 < gmc> we have a large chance i will doze of somewhere during the meeting... fosdem has left me rather exhausted and i had no chance to sleep in today either
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21:02 < MichaelCorbett> That's the great thing about IRC GMC.  You can doze and no one will know!
21:02 < PeterThoeny_> hi arthur, koen, michael, lars, sven (already up?), vicki!
21:02 < gmc> :))
21:02 < gmc> wb PeterThoeny_ 
21:02 < ArthurClemens_> hi peter
21:02 < MichaelCorbett> We will try to prod you from time to time.  ;)
21:02 < gmc> good :)
21:02 < MichaelCorbett> Peter, is Amir coming to the meeting?
21:03 < gmc> also went out to eat, indian, quite a lot of it, adding to the sleepiness :)
21:03 < PeterThoeny_> not sure, amir is still out for lunch
21:03 < MichaelCorbett> Who are we missing?
21:03 < gmc> rod?
21:04 < PeterThoeny_> rod is out for a meeting
21:04 < MichaelCorbett> Shame - Peter, did you manage to talk to him earlier re the video?
21:04 < PeterThoeny_> smaller team today, but key people are here so we might want to start
21:05 < PeterThoeny_> who is taking minutes, who is facilitating?
21:05 < MichaelCorbett> I'll faciliate if you like
21:05 < PeterThoeny_> hanks michael
21:05 < PeterThoeny_> i'll facilitate (anyone up to?)
21:05 < ArthurClemens_> Would MartinSeibert join?
21:06 < MichaelCorbett> ??  Peter, do you want me to or do you want to?
21:06 < PeterThoeny_> martin shows interest in marketing activities, not sure if he is joining tday
21:06 < PeterThoeny_> better two persons: one facilitating, one taking the notes
21:06 < MichaelCorbett> OK, I'll take notes then
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> since you take the notes i'll facilitate
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> proposed agenda:
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> #   1. Blogging
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> # 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> # 3. Testimonials
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> # 4. TWiki.org Performance
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> # 5. Merchandising
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> # 6. TWiki Meetups 
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> anything to add?
21:07 < PeterThoeny_> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x02x25
21:07 < gmc> i wanted to add something..
21:08 < PeterThoeny_> go ahead
21:08 < gmc> i wonder why i didn't.. it would be a general point about presence at trade shows / conferences... but i'm not sure how/what/when
21:08 < PeterThoeny_> good point
21:08 < VickiBrown> confs such as O'Reillly and Usenix run BOF sessions
21:09 < PeterThoeny_> lets add that as # 7. Trade Shows / Conferences
21:09 < gmc> ok cool
21:09 < PeterThoeny_> ---++ 1. blogging
21:09 < VickiBrown> small hand carefully raised
21:10 < PeterThoeny_> :-)
21:10 < VickiBrown> what would I be getting into?
21:10 < MichaelCorbett> Big round of applause for Vicki Brown!!!!
21:10 < gmc> \o/
21:10 < PeterThoeny_> last time we talked extensively how to get more blog posts
21:10 < MichaelCorbett> You'll be getting into the greatest OSS project in the world...  ;)
21:10 < ArthurClemens_> does this exist in english: "give one finger and take the whole hand..."?
21:10 < VickiBrown> I'm already IN that :)
21:10 < ArthurClemens_> past that
21:11 < PeterThoeny_> as a result we have now a "how to" in the blog home (thanks arthur) and a box in the .org homepage
21:11 < VickiBrown> look up America Sign lang for "volunteer"
21:11 < MichaelCorbett> Thanks Peter for that Box on the homepage
21:11 < MichaelCorbett> It fits in very well
21:11 < VickiBrown> ooh aah
21:12 < VickiBrown> Peter, did you maanage to contact anyone at twitter.org?
21:12 < PeterThoeny_> my css skills are bad, arthur if you could help on the margin issue i'd appreciate
21:12 < MichaelCorbett> Vicki, did you see the comments that GMC left for you?
21:12 < ArthurClemens_> y. where are the files on the sun machine?
21:12 < PeterThoeny_> vicki, not yet
21:12 < VickiBrown> MichaelCorbett: where?
21:12 < PeterThoeny_> one moment...
21:12 < MichaelCorbett> Hold on I'll dig out
21:12 < ArthurClemens_> etc or var...
21:13 < MichaelCorbett> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter
21:13 < PeterThoeny_> htdocs root is at /opt/csw/apache2/share/htdocs
21:13 < MichaelCorbett> For the sake of the minutes, what are we trying to do with TWitter?
21:13 < PeterThoeny_> this is solaris specific
21:13 < VickiBrown> yes, saw comments
21:13 < VickiBrown> I had suggested we consider a Twitter feed...
21:14 < VickiBrown> it's easy to feed a weblog into Twitter. Twitter is becoming popular
21:14 < PeterThoeny_> deformation professionelle: TWitter vs Twitter :-) ( make the mistake all the time)
21:14 < VickiBrown> I can explain more off-IRC
21:14 < VickiBrown> oh, yes, I always do that!!
21:14 < MichaelCorbett> OK, sounds good though
21:14 < VickiBrown> anyhow, there's a user on Twitter with id "twiki" but has never used it
21:14 < PeterThoeny_> vicki suggested that at the summit
21:15 < PeterThoeny_> good suggestion!
21:15 < VickiBrown> we might be able to convince him/her to give that name back
21:15 < PeterThoeny_> ep
21:15 < VickiBrown> if not, twiiki_org perhaps
21:15 < PeterThoeny_> (somehow my mac is eating the first char sometimes) 
21:16 < MichaelCorbett> Actually, there's a whole load of good stuff on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiCommunitySummit2008Q1
21:16 < PeterThoeny_> action item for peter: check on the #twiki twitter user
21:16 < MichaelCorbett> That we should make sure we pick up - or else it will get forgotten (sorry for bad english)
21:16 < PeterThoeny_> good point michael
21:17 < VickiBrown> I can handle the feed... unless someone else wants to 
21:17 < PeterThoeny_> shall we take that as # 8. TWiki Summit Review
21:17 < PeterThoeny_> ?
21:17 < MichaelCorbett> Vicki - you go right ahead!!
21:17 < gmc> if we have time left, sure!
21:17 < PeterThoeny_> i have a hard stop at +90 min
21:17 < PeterThoeny_> lets try to focus
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21:18 < PeterThoeny_> on twitter editor, yes vicki, please go ahead!
21:18 < PeterThoeny_> hi kenneth
21:18 < MichaelCorbett> We briefly need to talk about how to get more of us community members blogging
21:18 < Lavr_> Hello. Sorry I am late. I have network problems. Had to change to my other ADSL line
21:18 < PeterThoeny_> we are at # 1. Blogging
21:19 < MichaelCorbett> Vicki - you are used to a TWiki community environment from Yahoo
21:19 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: just ask em!
21:19 < MichaelCorbett> Any ideas how we can get more folks to blog?
21:19 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: just ask em!
21:19 < MichaelCorbett> Ask them - but how?
21:19 < PeterThoeny_> people probably read http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter
21:19 < gmc> that is the only way.. keep your feelers out, if something interesting comes along just ask them to blog about it
21:19 < MichaelCorbett> Should we send out to the low volume mailing list?
21:19 < gmc> people sometimes do not think their project is worth blogging about
21:20 < PeterThoeny_> solicit in the next newsletter: ask to write a blog about a twiki success story
21:20 < MichaelCorbett> Good idea, Peter.  
21:20 < MichaelCorbett> We need a blog post about the importance of blogging
21:21 < VickiBrown> I can send something through our internal twiki-users group
21:21 < MichaelCorbett> Sorry, that might have come out wrong - I really DO think that's a good idea
21:21 < PeterThoeny_> he twiki-announce is low volume, only used to announce new production releases (incl rcs), security issues, and newsletters
21:21 < MichaelCorbett> In the last meeting I talked about having a "staging area" for blog articles
21:21 < PeterThoeny_> yes, someone should write a blog post about the importance of blogging about a success story
21:21 < gmc> we should keep it to that too, because a lot of people are on that list by harvesting email addresses
21:22 < MichaelCorbett> Somewhere where half baked blog entries could become more fully baked
21:22 < PeterThoeny_> that way it ends up in the newsletter :-)
21:22 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: just as in a real blog, where a post is a draft until you publish it
21:22 < gmc> PeterThoeny_: indeed :)
21:22 < PeterThoeny_> that is a good point michael
21:23 < VickiBrown> Could we handle the "staging area" by membership in TWikiCommunityGroup?
21:23 < PeterThoeny_> would it make sense to add a publish or draft switch to the posts ?
21:23 < PeterThoeny_> that way people can post a story and it shows up when ready
21:23 < MichaelCorbett> Ah, I see what you are saying now - but the thing is, I would not have known that unless you had told me
21:23 < VickiBrown> whhat would be the process for a draft? Does it "hide"?
21:24 < gmc> VickiBrown: just like in any normal blog software (eg wordpress)
21:24 < gmc> you start a post, it is on draft status.. meaning it will be shown only to the author and maybe admins..
21:24 < gmc> once you publish it, it is visible on the blog..
21:24 < MichaelCorbett> That is a little too "hidden" to achieve what I meant by staging
21:24 < PeterThoeny_> at wind river we implemented a twiki forms based blog app where anyone can post, but an editor needed to give the rubber stamp to have it shown in the intranet home
21:25 < gmc> but twiki doesn't currently support that without fidling with the ALLOWTOPICVIEW 
21:25 < PeterThoeny_> we do not need an editor to approve posts
21:25 < gmc> ok
21:25 < MichaelCorbett> What I was meaning was a page where there would be a load of blog ideas listed at the top and people could come along and add new ideas/text
21:25 < PeterThoeny_> but it might make sense to have a flag in the blog form for the blogger to decide if draft or ready
21:25 < MichaelCorbett> Once there was enough ideas/text then it could be spun/handcrafted into a proper blog entry
21:25 < gmc> PeterThoeny_: yes, i think that's the way to go
21:25 < PeterThoeny_> no need to use view access control
21:26 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: the ideas could be blog posts set on draft, maybe with just a title and no body..
21:26 < PeterThoeny_> simply filtered in or out by %search in blog home
21:26 < gmc> you can make a seperate list with all the draft posts, which becomes your 'blog ideas listed at the top'
21:26 < MichaelCorbett> GMC: the problem with that is that people need to _know_ about that mechanism
21:26 < PeterThoeny_> i am wondering if we need that or if this is overkill
21:27 < PeterThoeny_> i lean towards kiss
21:27 < PeterThoeny_> e.g. leave as is
21:27 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: well, yes, people will need to know things to do things.. that's how life is :)
21:27 < MichaelCorbett> Well, all I am saying is that perhaps we need a new topic called BlogIdeas
21:27 < PeterThoeny_> ah, that is a good point
21:27 < MichaelCorbett> With just a link to/from the main blog page
21:27 < PeterThoeny_> as an idea generator
21:27 < PeterThoeny_> i like this idea
21:28 < MichaelCorbett> If you have 5 minutes to kill you just toddle along to BlogIdeas and add your 5 cents/2 pence worth
21:28 < PeterThoeny_> "not sure what to blog about? _we can help you_"
21:28 < MichaelCorbett> That's it!!  :)
21:28 < PeterThoeny_> the latter is a link to the blog ideas page
21:28 < PeterThoeny_> :-)
21:28 < gmc> heh, that's easy then... you just have an idea, jot it down, and wait for someone else to write the post..
21:29 < MichaelCorbett> Something like that... ;)
21:29 < PeterThoeny_> k, who is creating that page and the link to it from the blog home?
21:29 < VickiBrown> gmc - some people work better that way
21:29 < gmc> anyway, i'll stress one last time: one-to-one, ask someone specifically to write a blog about something specific they are working on, that works best..
21:29 < PeterThoeny_> agreed
21:29 < gmc> throwing out a big net usually doesn't yield much response in my experience
21:29 < VickiBrown> gmc - agreed.. for people yoou know have something interesting
21:30 < MichaelCorbett> Vicki - one to one - I am writing a blog post about the YouTube contest
21:30 < PeterThoeny_> the blog idea page is for casual visitors, solicitinb them to blog and giving them ideas
21:30 < PeterThoeny_> yes michael, please do
21:30 < gmc> ok, so where do we put it, in the Blog web ?
21:31 < PeterThoeny_> yes
21:31 < MichaelCorbett> Can we just put it on Blog.WebHome?
21:31 < VickiBrown> We already have a box for it
21:31 < VickiBrown> in WebHome
21:31 < gmc> what, the ideas?
21:31 < PeterThoeny_> the Blog.BlogIdeas page is just another supporting topic in the blog web
21:31 < VickiBrown> Do you have a TWiki experience to share? ...
21:31 < VickiBrown> add a secoond button
21:32 < gmc> ok, i think we have reached consensus! 
21:32 < VickiBrown> "Not sure what to write about? Look here"
21:32 < gmc> slap a name on it, and next item, we're already at +30 :)
21:32 < MichaelCorbett> Sounds great Vicki
21:32 < VickiBrown> I guess that's a name :)
21:32 < gmc> Vicki++ :)
21:33 < MichaelCorbett> Vicki - are you able to add that button?
21:33 < PeterThoeny_> small detail: i suggest to avoid "here" links, possibly: "not sure what to write about? we can help you" or the like
21:33 < VickiBrown> I don't do "click here
21:33 < VickiBrown> " links. Don't worry
21:33 < PeterThoeny_> :-)
21:33 < ArthurClemens_> in the meantime I have updated the homepage
21:34 < ArthurClemens_> added a margin to the buttons
21:34 < PeterThoeny_> time check: +34 min
21:34 < PeterThoeny_> great, thank you arthur!!
21:34 < ArthurClemens_> peter, could you redo the top button (download)?
21:34 < ArthurClemens_> the blog button is much better
21:34 < gmc> oh, one more small remark re blogging..
21:35 < PeterThoeny_> yes, i will create a generic background box where we can add text and logos on top of it
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21:35 < PeterThoeny_> one item left on blogging, then lets move on
21:35 < MichaelCorbett> Hi there UnixHag
21:35 < gmc> you'll notice that lots of projects have a 'planet'.. eg planet.gnome.org, www.planetpostgresql.org.. we might perhaps want to consider a planet.twiki.org, collating twiki related blogs from around the globe
21:35 < PeterThoeny_> i assume everybody read http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter
21:35 < unixhag> Hi, just a late token visit, sorry
21:35 < MichaelCorbett> Are there many TWiki blogs, GMC?
21:36 < PeterThoeny_> hi unixhag 
21:36 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: that would be a first question.. i think there are some people writing the occasional twiki post.. 
21:36  * unixhag is Main.SueBlake
21:36 < MichaelCorbett> Hmmmnnn... If we see lots of those TWiki blogs then I'd agree
21:36 < MichaelCorbett> Otherwise I think that the Planet TWiki might be a Lonely Planet
21:37 < gmc> it's just an idea.. it works very good for some projects..
21:37 < PeterThoeny_> koen is stepping down as the blog/newsletter editor, i thank koen for the initiative to define the well working process
21:37 < gmc> of course, it indeed only works if you have community members blogging about their work for the project (such as is the case with gnome postgresql freebsd etc..)
21:37 < MichaelCorbett> I second that - thanks to GMC :)
21:37 < PeterThoeny_> vicki is offering to help out as the blog/newsletter editor
21:38 < gmc> i don't think anyone will have any objection to that :)
21:38 < PeterThoeny_> neither do i
21:39 < PeterThoeny_> lets ask here: 1. agree to accept the offer of vicki as editor; 2. disagree
21:39 < MichaelCorbett> Agree
21:39 < ArthurClemens_> 1
21:39 < gmc> agree
21:40 < PeterThoeny_> others?
21:40 < unixhag> 1
21:40 < Lavr_> 1
21:40 < PeterThoeny_> LarsEik, Lavr_, SvenDowideit ?
21:40 < LarsEik> 1
21:40 < PeterThoeny_> 1
21:40 < PeterThoeny_> ok, done deal ;-)
21:41 < MichaelCorbett> Landslide victory for Vicki!!  (You should be an advisor to Hilary)
21:41 < gmc> \o/
21:41 < VickiBrown> woop
21:41 < PeterThoeny_> thank you very much koen for your work so far, and thank you vicki for stepping in!
21:41 < PeterThoeny_> tim echeck: +40 min
21:41 < gmc> it was done with pleasure, i'm glad we did it, and glad vicki is taking over so it can continue!
21:41 < PeterThoeny_> ---++ 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign
21:41 < ArthurClemens_> thanks koen
21:41 < ArthurClemens_> yes
21:42 < ArthurClemens_> I have been working on a skin design
21:42 < ArthurClemens_> perhaps you've seen some progress the last weeks
21:42 < ArthurClemens_> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg
21:42 < ArthurClemens_> scroll to bottom
21:42 < ArthurClemens_> we are not there yet, but it is becoming something
21:42 < gmc> scrolling....
21:43 < ArthurClemens_> the page is the landing page "About TWiki"
21:43 < ArthurClemens_> so not yet the homepage - that is a different beast
21:44 < ArthurClemens_> any opinions?
21:44 < MichaelCorbett> It looks great!  :)
21:44 < PeterThoeny_> wild idea: arthur made the twiki.net skin ready for 4.2, we will post it probably within the next few days to the plugins web; what about using a modified version of that skin on twiki.org?
21:44 < MichaelCorbett> If we have a front page like that it will do SO MUCH for the project
21:44 < VickiBrown> people will stop saying "but it looks funny"
21:44 < gmc> PeterThoeny_: pretty wild :)
21:44 < MichaelCorbett> Sounds good to me - what are the downsides?  Any?
21:45 < ArthurClemens_> twiki.net skin is great as tool, I use it with great succes
21:45 < ArthurClemens_> but for communication we need something extra
21:45 < PeterThoeny_> we have to be careful though that there is a distinct difference between .org and .net
21:45 < ArthurClemens_> ?
21:45 < MichaelCorbett> Stupid question:  twiki.net skin is open source, right?
21:45 < ArthurClemens_> about to
21:45 < PeterThoeny_> e.g. separate community site and for profit site
21:46 < PeterThoeny_> yes, it will be gpled
21:46 < MichaelCorbett> Good news - any idea of timeframe?
21:46 < PeterThoeny_> within a few days
21:46 < PeterThoeny_> arthur can give an update
21:46 < Lavr_> I think the home page and the first index pages can look different but once we get deeper inside TWiki I think it makes sense that TWiki looks like when you download it and install it - from a strict skin perspective.
21:47 < ArthurClemens_> that would be a confusing experience
21:47 < gmc> Lavr_: so you're suggestingn to replace pattern skin with the new twiki.org skin? :))
21:47 < Lavr_> No.
21:47 < PeterThoeny_> good point kenneth, possibly this: homepage and all landing pages in one look, the rest of .org in pattern skin look?
21:47 < ArthurClemens_> please no
21:48 < ArthurClemens_> it will look unfinished
21:48 < PeterThoeny_> just brainstorming
21:48 < ArthurClemens_> navigation is all over the place
21:48 < PeterThoeny_> i think this is up to arthur to decide
21:48 < ArthurClemens_> Lavr_: can you expand a bit?
21:48 < Lavr_> From a usability point of view having to scroll to the bottom to navigate on each page will make OUR daily use of twiki.org very bad.
21:49 < MichaelCorbett> For the sake of the poor old minute taker, please can someone summarise all of that.  Please.
21:49 < ArthurClemens_> that is not finished yet
21:49 < ArthurClemens_> because the main menu should have fold-out panes
21:49 < ArthurClemens_> to allow quick access
21:49 < ArthurClemens_> that is something you can do with a limited set of dirs
21:49 < ArthurClemens_> not with pattern skin
21:50 < ArthurClemens_> that should take 100+ webs into account
21:50 < gmc> Lavr_: navigation on twiki.org is done by modifying the url in the location bar of your browser, no? :)
21:50 < ArthurClemens_> but that is not what I meant
21:50 < ArthurClemens_> could you expand on why we should offer the same look?
21:51 < Lavr_> twiki.org is the display that shows what TWiki is. I find it a shame to present one thing and then people download something that looks 100% different
21:51 < gmc> Lavr_: you could also argue that it shows what twiki is capable of.. in casu.. have different skins
21:51 < gmc> to modify the look-and-feel
21:51 < PeterThoeny_> kenneth: i think this question can be addressed with screenshots
21:51 < Lavr_> 99% of people that download and use TWiki will never change skin
21:51 < PeterThoeny_> and videos
21:51 < gmc> PeterThoeny_: yes, and maybe even a 'demo' environment such as many projects have too
21:52 < ArthurClemens_> we don't need to have all twiki sites look the same as twiki.org
21:52 < unixhag> "This page demonstrates the Foo skin. You can use skins to change the look of your own TWiki."
21:52 < gmc> Lavr_: i dunno, there seem to be many natskin users out there
21:52 < gmc> of course, in practice, natskin and pattern are the only ones there really are, no?
21:52 < Lavr_> There are today TWO skins that actually work. Pattern and Nat.
21:52 < ArthurClemens_> pattern skin is bound by many constraints, so it is not optimal
21:52 < gmc> i'm planning a 'minimal' skin..
21:52 < Lavr_> And Pattern is what we distribute. What is wrong with our skin suddenly?
21:53 < ArthurClemens_> because it is a toolbox, not a final skin
21:53 < gmc> Lavr_: we had that discussion, we decided twiki.org needs a new look
21:54 < Lavr_> Yes. I agree that twiki.org needs a new look when you arrive at twiki.org. And maybe one level down but then  I - as a daily user of TWiki - would like something that is simple and standard
21:54 < ArthurClemens_> we can simplify deeper levels
21:55 < ArthurClemens_> but it should be intentional, not look like an accident
21:55 < Lavr_> naturally
21:55 < PeterThoeny_> time check: +55 min
21:55 < ArthurClemens_> you can set your own skin as well
21:55 < ArthurClemens_> if it doesn't work out 
21:56 < unixhag> At work recently I downgraded to the default (Pattern) in order to reduce maintenance for future casual admins. Whatever is default will be used most.
21:56 < PeterThoeny_> can we agree that all screenhots and screencasts should have the patternskin?
21:56 < Lavr_> I changed the WebLeftBar in Codev as late as TODAY. 
21:56 < ArthurClemens_> I have stopped looking there...
21:56 < gmc> +1 on Peter's proposal
21:56 < ArthurClemens_> or twiki.net skin
21:56 < gmc> and +1 on moving on with the new twiki.org skin
21:57 < PeterThoeny_> lets move on, any last minute comments on redesign?
21:57 < ArthurClemens_> thanks. I have also updated the site structure
21:57 < ArthurClemens_> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudienceSiteStructure#Site_structure_in_more_detail
21:57 < PeterThoeny_> arthur, any most pressing feedback you need from us?
21:57 < MichaelCorbett> Before we move on, please can someone summarise
21:58 < ArthurClemens_> please hold on for a second
21:58 < ArthurClemens_> because we are coming to content
21:58 < gmc> (sidenote: my lack of input on twiki.org redesign is not disinterest, but basically because i am not very visually minded)
21:59 < ArthurClemens_> taken
21:59 < ArthurClemens_> so the pages in the site structure are almost all landing pages, level 1 and 2
21:59 < ArthurClemens_> lots of these pages do not exist yet
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22:00 < ArthurClemens_> we need to get content: start writing, getting ideas
22:00 < ArthurClemens_> because we want to create a smooth entrance for visitors
22:00 < ArthurClemens_> both helpful as inspiring
22:00 < gmc> do we have a sitemap already?
22:00 < ArthurClemens_> that is the one
22:00 < gmc> that would help me in writing content a lot
22:00 < ArthurClemens_> some changes may happen of course
22:01 < PeterThoeny_> gmc: click on the last link arthur posted
22:01 < ArthurClemens_> but I would like to progress to a plan
22:01 < PeterThoeny_> time check: +60 min
22:01 < ArthurClemens_> I bet we will change once we start creating content
22:01 < gmc> oh sorry
22:01 < gmc> must be dozing off :)
22:02 < ArthurClemens_> the personas will guide us in manners of writing
22:02 < ArthurClemens_> who is interested in starting this off?
22:02 < VickiBrown> ArthurClemens_: ???
22:02 < PeterThoeny_> i just want to state that i am very pleased with the progress we are making here
22:02 < PeterThoeny_> very professional approach with personas
22:02 < PeterThoeny_> good site structure
22:03 < ArthurClemens_> thanks
22:03 < ArthurClemens_> vicki?
22:03 < VickiBrown> I don't understand your use of "persoonas"
22:03 < Lavr_> Yes. I also am 100% with Arthur on the site structure.
22:03 < ArthurClemens_> that is a interaction design approach
22:03 < PeterThoeny_> arthur: please chunk up the work once ready so that the community can start work on content of the landing pages
22:03 < ArthurClemens_> personas are presented here: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudience
22:04 < VickiBrown> ah. thanks
22:04 < ArthurClemens_> ok, but how do I keep people's attention?
22:04 < PeterThoeny_> vicki: this is a methodology to understand your users
22:04 < PeterThoeny_> see http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/Persona
22:04 < ArthurClemens_> because in 1 hour all will daze off
22:05 < ArthurClemens_> personally I will be working on skin, so I can't write it all
22:05 < gmc> ArthurClemens_: perhaps by setting deadlines and having people commit to them on certtain chunks
22:05 < ArthurClemens_> good suggestion
22:05 < PeterThoeny_> how about a table with work items?
22:06 < PeterThoeny_> each row listing ork item, implementer and status
22:06 < PeterThoeny_> s/ork/work/
22:06 < ArthurClemens_> that could help
22:06 < ArthurClemens_> we do have deadlines, don't we? our biweekly meeting.
22:06 < PeterThoeny_> each landing page is a work item, there can be some additional work items such as screencast etc
22:07 < PeterThoeny_> arthur, could you create that to-do table and let it open for people to grab work items?
22:07 < ArthurClemens_> yes, I can. let us start with a short period of idea harvesting.
22:08 < ArthurClemens_> before writing the actual content
22:08 < PeterThoeny_> :-)
22:08 < gmc> ArthurClemens_: and change some of the spelling on a daily basis, so it stays on top in WebChanges :))
22:08 < PeterThoeny_> shall we move to the next item?
22:08 < MichaelCorbett> I think we should
22:08 < ArthurClemens_> fine with me!
22:08 < PeterThoeny_> ---++  3. Testimonials
22:08 < MichaelCorbett> We have overrun as it is 
22:09 < MichaelCorbett> OK You Tube contest has started
22:09 < MichaelCorbett> But with no apparent interest
22:09 < MichaelCorbett> I will write a blog entry for our blog
22:09 < MichaelCorbett> It would be good to raise the profile of our blog
22:09 < MichaelCorbett> I would like to explore the idea of a coordinated "digg"
22:09 < PeterThoeny_> michael and i discussed this earlier today: what about adding a 3rd box on the ,org homepage pointing to the contest?
22:10 < MichaelCorbett> That is another way to do it - and probably easier to discuss
22:10 < PeterThoeny_> yes, the .org blog will help too
22:10 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: i want to upload a video, but lack the time needed to produce it unfortunately... :(
22:11 < MichaelCorbett> GMC: when you say "produce", do you mean edit?
22:11 < gmc> would a press release help? probably not..
22:11 < MichaelCorbett> I think a big banner on the front page might help
22:11 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: i have an idea for a youtube video that i would want to enter in the contest (not sure if i can even can though, rule-wise)
22:11 < MichaelCorbett> What does everyone think about that?
22:11 < PeterThoeny_> well, we should sent out the newsletter with youtube contest info as soon as possible, that reaches several thousand people
22:12 < gmc> newsletter++
22:12 < gmc> works better than banner on twiki.org
22:12 < gmc> not everyone is checking twiki.org on a daily basis.. not even on a weekly basis
22:12 < MichaelCorbett> How many stories have we already got racked up to go in the next issue of the newsletter?
22:12 < MichaelCorbett> If I create another one for the You Tube contest, could we then send it out?
22:12 < gmc> i wanted to write one about meetups
22:12 < Lavr_> I am still trying to find out how to make such a video. I only have the video feature in my "still" camera.
22:12 < PeterThoeny_> michael: wondering if we extend the submit period to 4 weeks after the newsletter?
22:13 < MichaelCorbett> Peter, if you look at the rules, we have the ability to extend for 4 weeks anyway
22:13 < MichaelCorbett> So I would like to keep deadlines as is at the moment
22:13 < PeterThoeny_> Lavr_: good point, may we we need a how to page?
22:13 < MichaelCorbett> That should concentrate people's minds
22:13 < PeterThoeny_> such as what screencast software is good on mac, on windows etc
22:14 < MichaelCorbett> Lavr: good point
22:14 < gmc> does it have to be a screencast though?
22:14 < PeterThoeny_> no, does not need to
22:14 < PeterThoeny_> can be a video from a video camera
22:15 < gmc> MichaelCorbett: on your q on stories for the newsletter, last story posted innewsletter is on the standalone project
22:15 < PeterThoeny_> time check: +75 min
22:16 < MichaelCorbett> Peter, did you manage to talk to Rod about the Welcome to the contest video?
22:16 < gmc> so there are already 10 new ones to be newslettered... of which one has already expired though (the one about rc2)
22:16 < PeterThoeny_> yes, he agreed
22:16 < MichaelCorbett> Great
22:16 < PeterThoeny_> :-)
22:16 < MichaelCorbett> So, given that we only have 14 minutes left, can I just ask about the banner on the front page
22:16 < MichaelCorbett> Are we agreed that it is a 1 - good idea 2 - bad idea
22:17 < PeterThoeny_> s/banner/box/
22:17 < MichaelCorbett> Sorry, box
22:17 < PeterThoeny_> a box like the download or blog box
22:17 < Lavr_> (arthur - you may consider for the new design where news is to be placed that will only be on the page for a short period)
22:18 < gmc> 1 - good idea
22:18 < Lavr_> 1 cannot hurt.
22:18 < PeterThoeny_> yes, the redesigned site could have a blog roll on the homepage to increase the stickiness of the website
22:18 < MichaelCorbett> Thanks guys.  Anyone else?  
22:18 < PeterThoeny_> 1
22:19 < PeterThoeny_> if not, lets move on
22:19 < PeterThoeny_> ---++  4. TWiki.org Performance
22:19 < PeterThoeny_> no update from sun :-(
22:19 < MichaelCorbett> Hang on - I was going to ask about digg
22:19 < PeterThoeny_> we signed the pagerwork ages ago
22:19 < MichaelCorbett> Actually, given the time, I'll leave that till another time
22:19 < PeterThoeny_> i will call the sun representative
22:20 < PeterThoeny_> my action items need to be carried over on # 4.
22:20 < PeterThoeny_> ---++  5. Merchandising
22:21 < PeterThoeny_> no update here i think
22:21 < PeterThoeny_> we can add new designs over time
22:21 < PeterThoeny_> for t-shirts with open source theme
22:21 < MichaelCorbett> Does it cost anything to add a design?
22:22 < PeterThoeny_> i do not think so ( i will ask amir, he stepped ou again...)
22:22 < PeterThoeny_> assume no cost for now
22:22 < PeterThoeny_> ---++  6. TWiki Meetups
22:23 < PeterThoeny_> the meetups are great
22:23 < PeterThoeny_> the point is to find someone locally to own it
22:23 < gmc> i plan on writing a small blog post about meetups: upcoming meetups, why meetups are great, just to keep it current on the newsletter too
22:23 < PeterThoeny_> once this is done it is more or less self propelling
22:24 < PeterThoeny_> great initiative koen!
22:24 < gmc> because indeed, the meetups are great and i'd like to see more of them, all over the globe!
22:24 < gmc> obviously, i can only keep them going in NL, not in germany, france, denmark, tokyo or korea :)
22:24 < PeterThoeny_> i sggest to have them quarterly: enough time to gather new material, and not too far to forget
22:25 < PeterThoeny_> anything else on meetups?
22:25 < PeterThoeny_> how did the europe meeting go?
22:25 < gmc> basically: not :)
22:26 < gmc> ktwilight and i met, finally, that was nice, but i think we were the only two twiki-enthousiastson the premises..
22:26 < gmc> or at least, of those that read codev
22:26 < PeterThoeny_> ah
22:26 < gmc> perhaps if an announcement had gone out in the newsletter, more might have been aware..
22:26 < gmc> we might consider adding a 'meetup agenda' in the newsletter
22:26 < Lavr_> I am at CeBit giving a TWiki presentation so hopefully the local TWiki guy in hannover will setup something at that event
22:26 < PeterThoeny_> nl an brussels are very near by, only space for one for now?
22:27 < PeterThoeny_> kenneth, that leads us to:
22:27 < gmc> well, it was not brussels..
22:27 < gmc> i mean, there were people from all over europe, even from all over the world (us, japan)
22:27 < PeterThoeny_> ---++ 7. Trade Shows / Conferences
22:28 < gmc> yes, there are some observations here
22:28 < gmc> i was wondering, if we as a community are ready for a more pronounced presence on conferences..
22:29 < gmc> eg, with a booth, having shirts, leaflets, flyers, mugs and stuff like that..
22:29 < gmc> but now that i thikn about it, i'm not sure we are dense enough yet to pull such things of in a coordinated effort
22:29 < VickiBrown> how do we handle cost? booth space can be Very Expensive
22:29 < gmc> VickiBrown: at trade shows, yes.. at open source conferences, no..
22:29 < PeterThoeny_> i am taking every opportunity to talk at conferences, such as linuxworld (filed application last night for august event), it360 in canada, wikisym and more
22:29 < MichaelCorbett> Sounds like a great idea - but we are just not organised enough yet
22:30 < Lavr_> Cost plus time. my daytime job for sure limits what I can do in this context
22:30 < MichaelCorbett> I think we'd definatley need a TWIki foundation if we wanted to tackle a trade conference
22:30 < PeterThoeny_> or a sponsor
22:30 < VickiBrown> gmc: agreed.
22:30 < VickiBrown> I'd like to mention BOFs again
22:31 < PeterThoeny_> there are also open source pavilions at commercial tradeshows such as linuxwolrd
22:31 < Lavr_> I assume they are not for free
22:31 < PeterThoeny_>  do not know
22:31 < MichaelCorbett> BOFs?
22:31 < gmc> at fosdem, a booth was free of charge (only limited booths available though, there were more applications than booths)
22:32 < VickiBrown> BOF = Birds of a Feather session
22:32 < gmc> other more local things here in holland, such as software freedom day organised by dutch linux users group also had free booth locations
22:32 < PeterThoeny_> just found out on linuxworld
22:32 < VickiBrown> post-scheduled-meeting gatherings, ;like meetups for conf attendees with shared interests
22:32 < gmc> VickiBrown: you'll have to enlighten us europeans on what that is :)
22:32 < gmc> ah
22:32 < VickiBrown> very popular here with Open Source cons
22:32 < VickiBrown> Usenix, I think, invented this
22:33 < PeterThoeny_> inuxworld has a .org pavilion, apparently for free or low cost, but with a lot of competition
22:33 < PeterThoeny_> for space
22:33 < gmc> PeterThoeny_: sounds familiar
22:33 < VickiBrown> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_%28computing%29
22:33 < MichaelCorbett> I am going to have to go in a few minutes, I am afraid.
22:34 < PeterThoeny_> bof is another topic worth looking into
22:34 < PeterThoeny_> time check: +95 min (i should sign off)
22:35 < gmc> i think we should close the meeting
22:35 < gmc> what was 8. again?
22:35 < MichaelCorbett> I do too
22:35 < PeterThoeny_> anyone ould like to own the tradeshow/conference thing?
22:35 < PeterThoeny_> the #8. was summit review/follow-up
22:35 < Lavr_> Too big a mouthful for me
22:36 < PeterThoeny_> yes, lets table #8 for this meeting
22:36 < gmc> s/this/next/ you mean?
22:36 < Lavr_> That was a remark for  own the tradeshow/conference thing?
22:36 < VickiBrown> fyi, I added some twitter links to the Silion Valley summit notes page
22:36 < PeterThoeny_> lets keep #7 from now on
22:36 < PeterThoeny_> yes kenneth
22:36 < VickiBrown> for those asking "wth is a twitter?" 
22:37 < PeterThoeny_>  gota go now, people are waiting..
22:37 < unixhag> gotta go, bye...
22:37 < PeterThoeny_> thanks all!
22:38 < Lavr_> Tata
22:38 < PeterThoeny_> please continue if you wish, but when you close the meeting carry on in #twiki
22:38 < PeterThoeny_> ok, seems a close then
22:38 < MichaelCorbett> Good night all
22:38 < PeterThoeny_> bye all, thanks all, very good meeting!
22:39 < VickiBrown> bye
22:39 < Lavr_> Vicki did you find my power supply?
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22:39 < VickiBrown> Lavr_: I didn't realize you'd lost it.
22:39 < VickiBrown> I'll ask
22:40 < Lavr_> I thought Peter had sent you an email
22:40 < gmc> bybye
22:40 < VickiBrown> I didn't see it, but I lost a hard drive on Tuesday and may have lost a message in that :(
22:40 < Lavr_> I forgot my laptop pwr supply in the last meeting room
22:40 < VickiBrown> I'll ask security if someone turned one in
22:40 < Lavr_> It is for an HP laptop.
22:40 < gmc> Lavr_: exactly why i have 3 power supplies, scatered around the locations i am most.. i always forget those things
22:41 < gmc> but!
22:41 < gmc> meeting is closed, let's move to #twiki!
22:41 < Lavr_> sure
22:41 < ArthurClemens_> are we done?
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