#twiki_marketing [21:10] # 6. TWiki Meetups [21:10] What is a randomizer? [21:10] =-= MartinSeibert_ is now known as MartinSeibert [21:10] dices for instance [21:10] anything to add to the agenda? [21:11] We need to discuss somewhere - maybe not here - about the next TWiki world summit [21:11] arthur, you mean to use a randomizer to select a facilitator and note taker? [21:11] How about Germany? :-) [21:11] k, lets take that as # 7. TWiki Summit [21:12] ---++ 1. Blogging [21:12] vicki is not here [21:12] she prepared the newsletter [21:12] As I already wrote: I have my blogs translated. [21:12] she got some feedback [21:12] peterthoeny: yes [21:12] ready to go basically [21:13] http://blog.seibert-media.net/2008/01/arbeitstechniken/wikis-sind-der-kitt-der-intranets-zusammenhaelt/ [21:13] except for possibly a date change on the twiki youtube contest *which we will discuss shortly) [21:13] http://blog.seibert-media.net/2007/11/arbeitstechniken/warum-in-jedes-intranet-ein-wiki-integriert-sein-sollte/ [21:14] MartinSeibert: these are the german blogs? [21:14] martin, if you create a blog entry as a one or two paragraph summary, people will help on brushing it up if needed [21:15] your topics look like an excellent fit for the twiki.org blog [21:15] how about an agenda of meetups in the newsletter? [21:15] jemand brauche twiki seit 1998? [21:15] yes, that would be good to have upcoming meetups listed in the newsletter [21:15] Peter: We ordered a professional translator to translate the whole blog-articles. [21:16] wow [21:16] it says the newsletter has been sent already? [21:16] Wow indeed - well done Martin! [21:16] Has the newsletter been sent?! [21:16] i have not seen that it has been sent [21:16] We will have all Wiki-related articles translated in the future. [21:16] BTW, I have had a good look round the TDO site and I can't figure out how to subscribe to the newsletter [21:17] Can someone please put me out of my misery? [21:17] I think it is good marketing for my company. :-) [21:17] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiNewsletter2008x03x07 [21:17] that would be a usability issue [21:17] MichaelCorbett: good point, it is the announce / security mailing list.. [21:17] hmm, i see now vicki's note that she sent it to twiki-announce, however i have not seen anything pending in the queue [21:18] Yes, a usability issue - but I'm still none the wiser [21:18] peterthoeny: i think it will be rejected if she's not in the allowed sender list, unless you've changed that [21:18] I have a text for a TWiki vs. MediaWiki comparison ready also. [21:18] * ArthurClemens_ is not sure if he's subscribed to twiki-announce [21:18] Maybe instructions on the page http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiNewsletter2008x03x07 would be in order? [21:18] But I had no time to review it yet. [21:18] ah, good point michael on how to subscribe [21:18] MichaelCorbett: yes [21:18] should be mentioned in the blog home [21:18] Lays there unprocessed since 14 days. :-( [21:18] and a landing page for the newsletter [21:19] who is taking the action item? [21:19] Action item being - how to subscribe? [21:19] which one? [21:19] yes, a landing page for newsletters listing all newsletters sent so far [21:19] we have that.. Codev.TWikiBlogAndNewsletter basically.. [21:20] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiBlogAndNewsletter [21:20] i meant the action item to add the info on subscribing in the blog home [21:20] but adding the subscribe there would be still a bit obscure [21:20] but needs to be cleaned up [21:20] now I wish we had a separate discussion page [21:20] Can anybody change the room topic. [21:20] It points to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x02x25 [21:20] (i do not know how to do that on my irc client) [21:20] It should point to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x03x10 [21:21] I wish we had separate discussion pages for many of the pages on Codev... [21:21] you need to have operator privileges on the channel. Who has? [21:21] who takes the action item to add subscribe info to blog home and twikiblogandnewsletter page? [21:21] well, we can create them [21:21] i will [21:21] just add Discussion to the topic [21:22] or Comments [21:22] ok, lets take this as an open action item [21:22] i'll take the AI [21:22] anything else on blog & newsletter? [21:23] thank you koen [21:23] gmc so it needs subscribe info, probably an INCLUDE block for each newsletter [21:23] Hang on - before we move on [21:23] can it be found from the blog home and t.o. home? [21:23] Can we delay sending out the newsletter until we sort out the you tube contest [21:24] =-= Lavr has changed the topic to “http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x03x10” [21:24] action item for me: in twiki.org home add link to newsletter home [21:24] ArthurClemens_: subscribe info we were talking about, right? [21:24] newsletter and blog should be integrated more [21:24] gmc: yes [21:24] yes, michael, we will decide on youtube deadline in this meeting [21:24] or a RSS feed for Blog and Newsletter combined [21:24] (and) [21:24] =-= unixhag has changed the topic to “ http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x03x10” [21:25] newsletter = blog... i don't think the newsletter needs its own rss [21:25] combined [21:25] well, they are on different urls [21:25] Blog web and Codev web [21:25] so how can we integrate them more? [21:25] the newsletter is like a digest of the blog [21:26] so, separate rss feeds look goo to me [21:26] does it make sense to move the newsletters to the blog web? [21:26] yes I think thats a great idea peter [21:26] Logically it would - but the trouble is that Codev is the place where you can guarantee that people will look [21:27] The great thing about changes in Codev is that people see them [21:27] newsletter is geard towards users so logical place is blog web [21:27] there's two audiences here: the community for making the newsletter.. [21:27] and the users for reading back on old issues... [21:27] If people aren't seeing what's in the blog web, that itself is the problem. [21:27] for the former, codev would be the best place, as MichaelCorbett mentioend [21:28] michael: idea on your concern: add a dev news item each time a newsletter is ready for review [21:28] Yes, that would work [21:28] Put Blog into Codev? [21:28] Arthur - I think that would be a step too far [21:28] on newsletter we should add a flag to each page: published yes/no [21:28] Auto-update a Codev topic when blog updates? [21:28] that way we can work on it and release it once ready [21:29] once ready, it will be listed in the rss feed and in the newsletter home in blog web [21:29] vicki already stated that she will create the app for the newsletter [21:29] so lets assign the action item to her [21:30] to move the newsletters to the blog web, and to create the app with published flag [21:30] We publish the //SEIBERT/MEDIA-Newsletter this way. [21:30] anything else? [21:30] time check: +30 min [21:30] we need to move on [21:30] See here: http://blog.seibert-media.net/newsletter.php [21:31] Everything is automated. :-) [21:31] We have an open action item: [21:31] good, we can create something like this [21:31] Newsletters need to be put in the Blog-Web after sending also. [21:31] the twitter stuff is open [21:31] Who takes this action item? "Newsletters need to be put in the Blog-Web after sending also." [21:32] vicki [21:32] who is this? http://twitter.com/twiki [21:32] unknown [21:32] ai on me to check on that [21:32] It could be argued that Codev readers are a self-perpetuating elite, an area where many common users fear to tread. Blog web could/should provide an in for them, maybe their only conversation. [21:33] Peter: Thanks. [21:33] ---++ 2. Usability & Home Page Redesign [21:33] that is me [21:34] and Carlo, but haven't seen him lately [21:34] we have not heard from carlo for a while [21:34] except for a post on confluence [21:34] for me, I have just yesterday created http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo [21:34] (has been hectic the past 2 weeks) [21:34] (arthur, as you noticed i renamed it to have 2008 in it) [21:35] yes [21:35] please have a look at the entries to see if there is a spot you would like to contribute [21:35] (share your thoughts, have ideas) [21:35] looks good [21:35] I will update the topics with persona notes and goals [21:36] Arthur: Cool! [21:36] suggestion: how about edittable format for easy update? [21:36] whoa, lots of tables dancing before my eyes (not your fault ArthurClemens_ it's that bug i was talking about earlier) [21:36] your flu? [21:36] they should be full of text... [21:36] ha [21:37] What is section 5.4 - Community Development? [21:37] peterthoeny: yes EDITTABLE should be an improvement [21:37] arthur: is the idea to create all landing pages in the twiki web? [21:37] as supplemental docs, or as new type "landing page" [21:37] ArthurClemens_: flu yes... sorry... looks good though, some of the work items would probably become topics themselves i would guess [21:37] Peter: Twitter was skipped, right? No action item on Twitter? [21:38] peterthoeny: as work items you mean? [21:38] not for final though [21:38] the landing pages can be mapped to existing Webs [21:38] Martin - Twitter skipped because Vicki not here - was there something you wanted to raise? [21:39] MichaelCorbett: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudienceSiteStructure#Site_structure_in_more_detail has a list with deeper levels [21:39] actually. some langing pages go directly to destination webs, such as support, blog, apps, plugins [21:39] Thanks, looking now [21:40] Codev.WebHome would become the landing page for Section 5. Community [21:40] Michael: no, just making sure the notes are complete. [21:40] ArthurClemens_? [21:40] remember, we are restructuring twiki.org [21:40] Who volunteers for text writing? [21:41] peterthoeny: the landing page url for Community will be Codev.WebHome [21:41] I volunteer to do a landing page for TWiki marketing - though I am not sure where that would fit in!? [21:41] MartinSeibert: i'm gonna pinch on on that one probably, i like a challenge :) [21:41] do people see my messages? network issue? [21:41] gmc: noted. :-) [21:41] peterthoeny: I am even answering them... [21:42] michael: noted. :-) [21:42] We saw that message Peter [21:42] me too [21:42] Peter is having problems with his connection [21:42] me too [21:42] But maybe we didn't see your other ones... I mean how would we know... ;) [21:42] he will restart and be back shortly [21:42] MichaelCorbett: don't get all existantial on me now... [21:43] Sorry GMC - reading Jean Paul Sartre again... [21:43] <--| peterthoeny has left #twiki_marketing [21:43] -->| peterthoeny (n=PeterTho@63.146.69.17) has joined #twiki_marketing [21:44] sorry, network issue [21:44] last thing i saw was: "[2:36pm]ArthurClemens_:I will update the topics with persona notes and goals" [21:44] MichaelCorbett: where did i put that ibuprofen..... [21:44] gmc: correct noted? [21:44] gmc volunteered to help Main.ArthurClemens with text writing. [21:44] here is what i typed: [21:44] [2:36pm]peterthoeny:suggestion: how about edittable format for easy update? [21:44] [2:37pm]peterthoeny:arthur: is the idea to create all landing pages in the twiki web? [21:44] [2:37pm]peterthoeny:as supplemental docs, or as new type "landing page" [21:44] [2:39pm]peterthoeny:actually. some langing pages go directly to destination webs, such as support, blog, apps, plugins [21:45] MartinSeibert: we all shoudl volunteer for that! [21:45] quote: peterthoeny: the landing page url for Community will be Codev.WebHome [21:45] gmc: We all should is not concrete. [21:45] so each WebHome _is_ a landing page [21:45] yes, arthur's list is good. that way people can grab items to write [21:45] MartinSeibert: but yes, put me in the minutes as volunteering [21:46] yes, makes sense arthur [21:46] I will volunteer to add comparisons to MediaWiki and Confluence. [21:46] i was referring to landing pages about info for evaluators [21:46] those new pages go into the twiki web? [21:46] I want to make sure, the companies choose the right wiki system. [21:46] let me check... [21:47] About TWiki > What is TWiki? > Compare [21:47] Time check: +47 minutes [21:47] so yes [21:47] Any more action items or volunteers? [21:47] time check: +47 min [21:47] Peter: Wanna write a text? [21:48] Peter: More connection issues? :-) [21:48] anything else on redesign? [21:48] before dashing of to write a new piece of web content, please read the top of the page! [21:48] have your target audience in mind [21:49] ---++ 3. Testimonials & Contest [21:49] Arthur: I will put in the meeting notes: "Everybody is requested to keep the defined personas as readers in mind while creating content." [21:49] ArthurClemens_: amen to that [21:50] :-) [21:50] Well, as people have observed, we still don't have any entries [21:50] i will help with text writing too [21:50] And this is probably due to the fact that we haven't sent out the newsletter [21:50] I suggest to use the 2000 USD for something else. [21:50] es, no entries yet on contest [21:50] s/es/yes/ [21:50] So the only people who know the contest has started are the readers of Codev [21:50] i think so too [21:51] we have not reached out to the target users who are likely to participate [21:51] we can reach them with the newsletter [21:51] Peter: Who is it? [21:51] Companys creating a video? [21:51] the twiki admins [21:51] Unlikely ... [21:51] e.g. the subscribers to twiki-announce [21:52] i think we need more than just the newsletter though, but i might be wrong [21:52] Peter, why has Rod stepped down as Champion? [21:52] GMC - you may be right - what do you suggest? [21:52] he is very busy with other things [21:52] MichaelCorbett: bill boards in subways around the globe! [21:52] Why not enhance the time for the contest for a much longer period? [21:52] Well, that's always been true - but is he still committed to the contest? [21:52] MichaelCorbett: seriously though, some coverage on geek sites would be nice, but difficult to attain probably [21:53] Martin - we are thinking of doing just that [21:53] Within 12 Months a lot of companies might be likelier to react. [21:53] The contest rules permit us to extend the contest for another month [21:53] But 12 months is a bit too long! :) [21:53] I am interested in being the Co-Champion in testimonials and contests [21:53] Amir: noted. :-) [21:53] well, if you enter a video now, you're almost guaranteed to win the $2000 :) [21:54] GMC - problem with geek sites is that you have to be a Geek PLUS a TWiki geek [21:54] think we all agree to extend the deadline [21:54] Michael: That would be a reasonable time from todays standpoint, right? [21:54] since it is stated that we can extend by 4 weeks we should do that [21:54] So you might as well just reach out to the TWiki geeks on TWiki.org [21:54] How about that: Let the contest go for 12 months or until we have 100 countable submissions. [21:54] That would extend the deadline to 14th April [21:54] MichaelCorbett: true.. but how many of the TWiki geeks are on the mailing list? how many read Codev regularly? [21:54] the mailing list was harvested, what, 3-4 years ago? [21:54] by googling for public TWiki sites.. [21:55] Was it? [21:55] I didn't realise it was so old [21:55] In the notes: "The deadline of the YouTube-Contest shall be extended." [21:55] action utem for me: ask around to publicize the contest among geek circles [21:55] I was under the impression that somehow the mailing list was a subscribe to the list while you are on the TDO site or soemthing like that [21:56] Peter: noted. [21:56] the twiki-announce is a purely opt-in list [21:56] MichaelCorbett: that is also true of course, but how many have actually subscribed? i don't know.. [21:56] it should stay that way [21:56] around 4000 i think [21:56] Can someone explain where the list came from - this is important [21:57] peterthoeny: yes, but 3-4 years ago people were subscribed automagically by a google search, right? [21:57] A new list is much more effective than an old one [21:57] many more than the webnotify subscribers in the codev web [21:57] action item: Main.MartinSeibert: Create Blog-article in German and promote YouTube-Contest. [21:57] cool [21:57] Thanks Martin [21:57] i doubt that a dutch article on my own blog will help much, but i'll write one anyway :) [21:58] anything else on contest? [21:58] Beware: It will have virtually no effect. :-) [21:58] GMC & Martin - please feel free to carve up my blog entry on the You Tube contest [21:58] gmc: noted. [21:58] ---++ 4. TWiki.org Performance [21:58] Michael: Will you post a link here? [21:59] My blog article was in the newsletter [21:59] the hardware finally arrived at our doors [21:59] (my blog is mostly read by left-wing green politician-like people :) [21:59] hardware! \o/ [21:59] but i just checked and not everything arrived [22:00] we have now one webserver (t5220) and one nas appliance (5320) [22:00] Our blog has lots of readers but very little twiki-users, I assume. [22:00] Martin - here is link: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Blog/2008-02-28-twiki-youtube-and-2000 [22:00] (i'll post on some Dutch techy-minded mailing lists too, who knows) [22:01] but we are waiting for two more t5220 [22:01] peterthoeny: we can go ahead and make the first webserver and the nas work, right? [22:01] i am working now with the landlord to get the equipment installed in the data center [22:01] once done we can start with the twiki setup [22:01] and clone the webservers.. or do we have some more elaborate scheme in mind? should we even discuss technical infrastructure-related matters on a marketing meeting? [22:01] yes, we can do that [22:01] i will find out when the other two webservers arrive [22:02] Time check: +62 [22:02] ---+ 5. Merchandising [22:03] this one is open [22:03] Peter: no action item on TWiki-Performance? [22:03] e.g. champion unassigned [22:03] action item for me: get hardware ready up to ssh login level [22:03] MartinSeibert: action items are that peter is gonna get the new gear installed + find out when the remainder of the gear is to arrive [22:03] I am interested in Merchandising [22:03] I will champion this one also [22:03] action utem for me: find out when 2 additional servers arrive [22:04] Amir - I think you'd make a great champion! [22:04] thank you amir! [22:05] Last time I checked on Spreadshirt no one has purchased any TWiki shirts [22:05] I believe once we market them we will be able to sell more shirts [22:05] AmirShobeiri: i think we need some more enticing designs [22:05] may be we need some more marketing for the shirts [22:05] any ideas for marketing these shirts [22:05] Thanks, Amir. [22:05] Noted as Champion. [22:05] e.g. pointers on twiki.org and twiki.net to the t-shirts [22:06] arthur: is that planned on the redesign? [22:06] blog item? [22:06] also, would they sell on meetups / conferences where there's a twiki booth? [22:06] good idea on blog item [22:07] probably good to create 2 or three open source twiki designs first [22:07] perhaps we need to modify the design? [22:07] venues such as fosdem, linux-tag etc.. are great for selling goodies to money-spending geeks, i know i usually buy tons of the stuff at such venues :) [22:07] amir just stepped out [22:08] if you have a design, post it on twiki.org and alert amir [22:08] he can add it to the selection [22:08] Who will write the blog item? [22:09] where does the money go btw, there's no profit on the shirts now right? [22:09] btw, there is zero profit on shirts [22:09] spreadshirt doesn't seem to have any Search, so I don't know how to find it [22:10] I will put it untaken: Write blog entry on TWiki-merchandising-products like T-Shirts. [22:10] on open source twiki shirts, and a $2 profit on twiki.net shirts [22:10] http://160735.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/ [22:10] Unixhag: Use this one. [22:10] sue, link is in the minutes page [22:10] http://160735.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/ [22:10] gmc: by the way: What is your TWiki-Name? [22:10] yeah, but the spreadshirt site isn't helping us much is it [22:11] Is there a better alternative then? [22:11] so far we just have one .org design (first shirt) [22:11] -->| MartinSeibert_ (n=mseibert@dslb-084-059-198-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #twiki_marketing [22:11] Hi! [22:11] I had to switch computers again. [22:12] martin: gmc is KoenMartins [22:12] Who has a complete IRC-log that he can post later? [22:12] perhaps the rules of the twiki logo are not clear [22:12] there is something on TWiki/TWikiLogos [22:12] <--| MartinSeibert has left #twiki_marketing [22:12] on shirts at meetups, the risk is with the person purchasing the shirts ahead of time [22:12] but we need to know how flexible we are regarding things as tshirts [22:13] |<-- gmc has left irc.freenode.net (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [22:13] |<-- WikiRingBot has left irc.freenode.net (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [22:13] on flexibility: i think we can be pretty flexible, the only thing to remember is to have a consistent branding of the logo [22:13] Time check: +73 minutes [22:13] -->| gmc (n=gmc@freenode/sponsor/gmc) has joined #twiki_marketing [22:13] -->| WikiRingBot (i=www-data@wikiring.de) has joined #twiki_marketing [22:13] yes [22:14] ---++ 6. TWiki Meetups [22:14] but what is consistency? [22:14] anything coming up? [22:14] -->| gmc_ (n=gmc@sonologic.xs4all.nl) has joined #twiki_marketing [22:14] oh great, a netsplit [22:14] am i back on the channel now? [22:14] on branding: don;t change the look of the logo [22:14] last i saw: 22:10 < unixhag> spreadshirt doesn't seem to have any Search, so I don't know how to find it [22:15] peterthoeny: too bad, arthur's design was quite nice actually... [22:15] link? [22:15] I wouldn't know what to change based on TWiki/TWikiLogos [22:15] http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMerchandise [22:15] May I ask again: Who has a complete IRC-log that he can post later? [22:15] I would figure that putting an oval around the logo is also not consistent [22:15] front of arthurs design is nice actually [22:16] it does not alter the logo [22:16] ah [22:16] MartinSeibert_: mine is not complete anymore now :( [22:16] so is rotation allowed for instance? [22:16] personally i do not like the backside, too low contrast [22:16] and perhaps we just need white shirts? [22:17] Arthur: Do you have a complete IRC-log? [22:17] rotation is ok i think [22:17] i think the rotation has been vetoed already? [22:17] I would veto rotation! [22:17] to avoid any ovals? [22:17] :-( [22:17] Arthur: Yeah. White shirts are good. Especially in summer and sports. :-) [22:18] yes, we can add several designs [22:18] Is there a bot, that has the complete IRC-log? Peter: can you get hold of a log? [22:18] i missed part of it when i had the network issue [22:18] Martin, you did not get my message? [22:19] MartinSeibert_: WikiRingBot is here, but got split off together with me so it's missing part of the session [22:19] ArthurClemens_: get your design on to spreadshirt and i'm ordering right away :) [22:19] Arthur is the last hope on a complete log, huh? :-) [22:19] normally I have a log but not on the computer I chat on today [22:20] A shirt with a logo is something you get for free and wear as a marketing exercise. One you buy has to be kewl, not plain logo. I love the rotated T black shirt, for example, I could wear that anywhere. [22:20] MartinSeibert_: i have most of it logged.. just not the part where i was lost in netsplit [22:20] I have a complete session here on IRC [22:20] I have saved it, but it is xml [22:20] i can post the log if someone sends me the 5 min part where i was offline [22:20] gmc: Okay. Will you please post the file in the meeting minutes later? Thanks. [22:20] Michael: even better. Noted. [22:20] OK [22:20] ok, michael, please attach it at the end to the inutes page [22:20] MartinSeibert_: MichaelCorbett has the complete log, so i'll let him attach it [22:21] back to: [22:21] |<-- gmc_ has left irc.freenode.net ("leaving") [22:21] Sure thing - but lets wrap up soon - I'm dying here! :( [22:21] ---++ 6. TWiki Meetups [22:21] same here [22:21]