who is the wikiringbot? * MichaelCorbett (n=chatzill@78.145.195.52) has joined #twiki_marketing hi michael Hi there Peter, How's things? Hello all too busy tired from weekend I know the feeling outage of many servers Oh dear. I noticed that twiki.org wasn't responding well this morning tried to get the dns issue resolved until 2am last night i am here. hello all finger pointing between registrar and domain wholeseller yeah, the server outage affected some of our servers at work, too :( Hi there wbniv! What is your twiki username? ah, hi will, long time no see! WillNorris Hi there Will * wbniv is now known as WillNorris * WillNorris waves * MichaelCorbett Is this me waving too? * MichaelCorbett Michael is amazed. that's the first time he's done that. * Lavr (n=donotlik@cpe.atm2-0-103309.0x3ef3d076.albnxx13.customer.tele.dk) has joined #twiki_marketing * peterthoeny sending flowers to those who arrived in time hi kenneth Hello all. * peterthoeny has changed the topic to: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketingMeeting2008x06x02 * MichaelCorbett Heralds the arrival of Martin Siebert * MichaelCorbett Any second now... good to have many channels open to call folks (thanks michael for calling martin on skype chat) Yes, maybe one of these days we'll experiment with actual Skype "voice" calls * MartinSeibert (n=mseibert@dslb-084-059-108-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #twiki_marketing i have seen that skype conf calls sometimes work well, sometimes drop off calls... Hi all hallo martin! Sorry for being late ... I read something about DNS-problems? Are they solved? quick update on dns the datacenter in houston had an explosion in the power generator room, blowing away three walls TWO happened to be down the whole day yesterday. knocking off power to the whole data canter Ouch! none of our/my servers are in that data canter, but both name servers have been there Wow! I guess it must have affected a lot of North America? yes, 9000 servers last night they restored power with emergency generator to upper floor so our dns is up again Peter: What about the new servers? Any news on that? i tried many hours to change name servers to another isp lets talk about new servers as part of the agenda Okay. Sounds good to me. long story short: we are up again with dns on old name servers, we will migrate away from them (pending work) let's start who is taking minutes? who is facilitating? I would take minutes, if you agree. i suggest we quickly run through the agenda item and spend more time on brainstorm Peter: Would you facilitate? thank you martin yes, i can proposed agenda: # 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign # 2. Blogging # 3. Testimonials & Contest # 4. TWiki.org Performance # 5. TWiki Meetups # 6. Brainstorming for ideas Who is present? anything to add? * shortkut (n=kikik@202.69.10.222) has joined #twiki_marketing We should go through the marketing-action items! Hi there Shortkut! What is your TWiki username please? we have not heard from koen and sven, let;s only list those who voice their voice * shortkut (n=kikik@202.69.10.222) has left #twiki_marketing or voice their text :-) I agree with Martin: let's go through action items It is here: http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMarketing#Action_items Do you think I frightened Shortkut away?! ;) ok, action item then Hm: only us three then. :-) Peter: moderator, Martin: Notetaker, Michael: Discussions ... :-) and kenneth and will 3? heh snap Ah. Okay. Sorry. I was wondering about the number 3 too first action item on persona is not specific, so lets skip it Let's start. CarloSchulz: Organize TWiki-Meetup after first day of Berlin summit Kenneth's role is nodding. this is under way by carlo and markus We should be in the hotel for the meetup. s/markus/martin/ What do you think? Yes. the meetup is for users and developers Kenneth - have you been to the hotel before? Can you vouch for its suitability as a venue for a meetup? so it should accommodate a number of people, and projector Yes. Many times It has a small cafe / restaurant which I think is suitable Let's take the hotel. if in the hotel we need to get a room But it is not a place for presentation. Just talks and beer I agree - it simplifies logistics i'd prefer a place where people can present We have plenty room for presentations throughout the day. Should that be part of the meetup? We cannot use Motorola for random access in the evening. Far too much security for that Peter: Is the audience for the meetup much different from the summit-participants? kenneth attended the silicon valley meetup in feb summit participants if by/for develoeprs meetup is by/for users (developers are users too) * wbniv (n=wbniv@189.165.13.183) has joined #twiki_marketing Hi wbniv sorry, back, flakey internet :( so, it is good to ask some companies ahead of time to present 10 min each what they do with twiki OK, how are we going to decide this? Do we have presentations at the meetup? I think we should for the reason that Peter has just come out with. * WillNorris has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) in the feb meetup we had ilog presenting a twiki/sharepoint integration Of course, this depends on us GETTING companies to voluteer to present lynnwood presenting twiki at healthcare etc Okay. I will put it in the notes. We will see how this can be solved. * wbniv is now known as WillNorris I could bring along a beamer. i think one evening should be a social gathering for developers, the other the meetup for users Maybe the hotel can offer a "wall". :-) I will call them ... that's why i think it is better to have the meetup in a conf room (and get some catering food) twiki.net can sponsor that Thanks Peter (and thanks to TDN) I think that many people won't want to stay around on a Friday evening * Main.MartinSeibert: Call hotel and make sure, that short presentations can be held during the meetup. So that only leaves Thursday evening yes, i think we said thu for meetup Yep. OK, so Friday is the social meeting for developers * Main.MartinSeibert: Call hotel and make sure, that short presentations can be held during the meetup. Maybe a conf room is suitable? Ask for pricing ... fri or wed evening? for social gathering? How about a blog post for the meetup? Peter, why not put a vote on the TWiki Summit page? yes, we have done meetup announces in blogs before You'll get far more replies than you'll get on this IRC chat * Main.MartinSeibert: Create blog entry for TWikiMeetUpInBerlinGermany. yes, good idea on voting for wed or fri for social gathering * vlbwork (n=vlbwork@nat/yahoo/x-f56875aa84597e9e) has joined #twiki_marketing Lets go on with the list of tasks. * vlbwork is now known as VickiBrown KennethLavrsen: Create an agenda for the TWiki Summit in Berlin in September. We should start to collect possible topic ideas also. hi vicki! Any news on that? Hi Vicki! Hi Vicki! hi * KoenMartens: Newsletter-Subscription for TWiki-Newsletter shall be easier. Explanation for dummies needed. * KoenMartens: How to subscribe should be mentioned in the blog home also. * KoenMartens volunteered to help ArthurClemens with text writing for TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo. Does anybody know anything about this? Anything finished? I will look at the agenda in near future. I have some ideas. Just one thing. No governance issues please. That needs to be settled BEFORE I think how to subscrbe is mentioned Good point Kenneth Lavr: No one but you answered on my TWiki-Foundation-post yet. :-( Kenneth: agreed Okay for me also. The problem is that when people (myself included) have posted stuff about twiki governance we are usually met with a wall of silence/indifference the governance question is on my plate i will get there Okay. * peterthoeny asking for patience Let's move on with the tasks. TWiki governance is a real tough nut to crack # MartinSeibert: Make sure, that the Wikipedia-Entry for TWiki is linked wherever Wikipedia talks about Corporate Wikis (in de.wikipedia.org). # MartinSeibert: Update ComparisonOfMediaWikiToTWiki with new arguments from comments and sort out non-distinctive elements from argument-list. Create Weblog-article for TWiki-Blog and for //SEIBERT/MEDIA-Weblog (in German). # MartinSeibert: Write blog entry about TWiki-Skype-Support-Channel at http://tinyurl.com/3ltb26. Explain how to get a not-so invasive mode for chats ... smile # MartinSeibert: Found a Xing-Group for TWiki MediaWiki-Comparison is ready for publishing in the weblog. :-) koen communicated that he is not involved anymore, so it might be better to unassign his action items The rest of my todos is open ... thanks martin for the pr in germany! Peter: I have them translated in english also ... :-) yes, nice! Hold on ... # MichaelCorbett will move his content from MarketingHub to TWikiMarketing I grab the drafts ... anything pensing there? As screenshots. "pending" Not like the last time ... :-) That actually was actually done for me by Martin I think the action is complete I changed two of Koen's to me ok And not even by me! :) thanks vicki! # PeterThoeny will call Dirk Riehle (WikiSym2008 - Management) discuss, if they want a tutorial again. i submitted the proposal in time i also will be in a panel on structured wikis # PeterThoeny: Update TWiki-Presentation from Peter (shorter, new statistics, ...) open # PeterThoeny: create and maintain topic in Codev web on (delivery) status of webservers done (initiated by crawford) # PeterThoeny: update twiki.org to 4.2 done for testing on current server http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/4x2/view/Main/WebHome I also submitted a practitioner report for wikisym2008 page access time drops from 3 sec to 4 sec (not all plugins enabled, such as tagme) Part 1 of the blog-entry, that will also be published on TWiki-blog: http://blog.seibert-media.net/download/twiki1.png Part 1 of the blog-entry, that will also be published on TWiki-blog: http://blog.seibert-media.net/download/twiki2.png ah, nice, martin! # PeterThoeny: In twiki.org home add link to newsletter home open # PeterThoeny: get hardware ready up to ssh login level done # PeterThoeny: find out when 2 additional servers arrive Please change the statuses in the action items yourself, okay? done and installed ok i will # PeterThoeny: Promote IRC-Chats before start via IRC, Skype and Twitter, so that, everybody gets a reminder. i am not sure i understand what i am supposed to do with this one Thanks to MIchael. I would have been very late, if he had not send out the skype message. No problem I would believe, that email-reminders would be as good. # VickiBrown: Add a publish flag so that only released newsletters are listed in the newsletter homepage in Blog web. # VickiBrown: Create a NewsletterFeed page (look at RssFeed for inspiration) # VickiBrown: Someone needs to create a blog entry about the importance of blogging for TWiki. Cancel that! # VickiBrown: Make sure, that the Wikipedia-Entry for TWiki is linked wherever Wikipedia talks about Corporate Wikis (in en.wikipedia.org). I need someone to add the NewsletterForm to WebPreferences Either we blog or not. vicki: lets take that offline you can do that No one needs explanation on the purpose and usefulness of a weblog. k. (then my pub flag is closed) and I removed the dup for Wikipedia. Martin can keep that one :) :-) ok, done with action items I will only take care of de.wikipedia.org. :-) Good! :-) tell me what you do and I can do en to match Time check: +44 let's quickly cover addition items in agenda ---++ 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign We need texters! arthur and carlo not here yes Can't we buy them? i think we can start creating langing pages in the twiki web In Germany that is quite easy. People who can do editorial work are not that expensive ... I could have it done, if twiki.org was in German. What are texters? if the community thinks this is best done by hiring texters i can ask twiki.net to fund some By the way, I would like to take over the German translations ... Texters create texts. but i believe this is a community thing that should be done by community Ah, you mean like a technical writer or a copyrighter? meaning they translate existing text? community needs to take ownership of twiki.org content martin let me understand, what would you give to paid texters? Peter: That seems to be difficult. The topic did not change significantly, since I joined the club. Euros. :-) Or US-Dollars. :-) no, i mean what kind of work s/give/assign/ At //SEIBERT/MEDIA we let them start to to very easy jobs. If they work out, the get more and more responsibility. The weblogs I posted were created that way. i fear it could backfire if we pay for content creation, it put incentive to work mainly for pay My estimation: 500 - 1500 Euro and you get all new texts. Sorry, all new texts for *what*? Peter: Will you work less, then? developers are mainly intersted in working on sexy stuff writing is rarely sexy :( Michael: We need about 20-30 good pages, that explain TWiki for the personas. if we send the message that paid folks are taking care of content, i fear developers will contribute even less content If we had someone come up with at text, all others could correct and optimize. That is much faster. Peter: Why should they? To be honest I have totally lost track of what it is that we need to rewrite. There has been so much talk about personas etc etc. We all want twiki.org to be successful. we see very little progress on new content on twiki.org i see your point it might help to jump start to hire writers Who would criticise good editorial work. may be yes as a sort term solution That is what I am talking about. It is just an add on. if then it needs to be clear that this is a short term solution Just like what Carlo and I contribute today. Peter: What do you fear? We can fire bad contributors easily. I do not see any reason why anybody who is active today should stop working, because others now receive some bucks ... no, my fear is not the quality of paid texters, my fear is that it sends a message to develoeprs that the content is taking care off and to do nothing on twiki.org content Those people who contribute today do not do it for bucks ... I am trying to find out where it is described where I would start. I have no clue after all the discussions Lavr: That is exactly what my situation is with our websites often ... :-) Very good point - maybe that's why the writing has stalled. kenneth: the idea is to start some landing pages in the twiki web, once content is ok link to it from homepage It is a bit unclear on what people should be writing step by step And what about all the confusing stuff at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebPageAudienceSiteStructure? Michael: That will be clear sooner or later ... I do not know where to start. Is the topic skeleton created? What about the layout? What is it we are expected to do??? Maybe Martin, or maybe we need to create a single, simple page that tell us what to do and what to write hmm, the page with the table of pages to create is not linked from the minutes page arthur created a page that has a table with pages we need to create got it http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo time check: +60 min I remember seeing that. That is even more confusing That is loads of work. i suggest we speed up and stop at +90 min I cannot cope with that? ! Who can? step by step i admit it looks complex I stay at: We need people to help. I am offering 200,00 Euros as a donation or payment. create a few landing pages in the twiki web and see how people help enhance it In Germany that should be enough for 20 hours of editorial work from a student or a mid-level-"texter". thank you martin for the offer! martin: here is an idea: use that money to pay an intern/texter at your consulting company Peter: In Germany there is www.textbroker.de. Peter: They are not good enough in english. That is why we have a professional translator. If I as an insider do not know where to start and what is expected how will a person paid for it know? There will be similar portals in the US, I guess. 20 hours is not very much for someone who doesn't understand TWiki and has to go up that whole learning curve about wikis etc if we outsource content creation we need someone in the community to interface/coordinate Lavr: With 20 hours you could do all of these texts, correct? Michael: Correct. It will just be the proof of concept for 3 to 10 pages ... I do not understand what "texts" needs to be written in the first place. We need some simple navigation pages. the problem i see is that the content we need requires a good understanding of wiki collabroation, hence requires someone familiar with twiki or another wiki Lavr: A texter will be much slower. But he will produce results, that we can work with. Optimization is much easier than creation. But then all the personas and advanced layout discussions started and that complicated things Yes, it did get a bit too complicated! i think we need arthur's input on this one But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't disregard the work that was done. People created some good stuff. Lavr: Personas are cool stuff in general. They are not an obstacle, although I agree, that the make things more complex here ... :-) Can I have short votes on "professional texters"? I am in favor of the idea. :-) action item for arthur: reorganize/simplify TWikiOrgRenewalWorks2008ToDo so that people can start creating pages I agree with Peter. I think we need to reorganise the renewal works 2008 page. I do not believe we need texts. We need the structure created. We need the pages created with the navigation - made by the people that spent 5 months designing it. Took it down . let's move on to next item ---++ 2. Blogging we covered it anything to add? i think we need more content for next newsletter I will have the posts published soon. How about to encourage people to Twitter I've kind of forgotten to twitter about TWiki recently how to encourage? same as encouraging to blog :( Twitter is working okay in my opinion. http://twitter.com/KobB/statuses/825430316 Vickie: You got it! :-) ---++ 3. Testimonials & Contest perhaps it is time for a newsletter We have 36 Updates in our Twitter-Microblog already. That is not too bad. vicki: this is up to you, compose newsletters as you feel when ready I know. That was more a rhetorial comment. A newsletter will introduce twitter to -announce no update on testimonials --++ 4. TWiki.org Performance good news is that servers are installed and ready bad news is that performance sucks 9 sec for page access no matter if no load or heavy load last week i asked help from a sun employee so we will optimize the system Peter: Did you ponder over a distributed solution already? we have very powerful webservers, each with 64 cores, 32gb ram I would be happy to host a German version on our servers. Oh! If we get 9 seconds on an unloaded server then there is something very basic wrong with the setup So. How can it be so slow? the key issue is that those servers are not designed for web cgi, rather for high transaction database type of stuff I would think that 64cores and 32 GB ram could cope with everything on TWO? kenneth, i can give you access if you would like to look into it we spent quite some time Based on changes our intranet is much more active than TWO. :-) I am not familiar with the Sun OS at all. the sun employee said that we can optimize more but that the best solution is to get one more server, an x86 that is much better for cgi traffic Peter: Is it a tuning problem in the Twiki-core? I cannot believe the 9 seconds is because of the CPU. It is the OS and its filesystem that must be keeping on searching in vain for something we need to do more profiling to understand where the issue is Action item for Peter: Update http://www.twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewTWikiOrgServer2008 Okay? i am concerned that a plain vanilla 4.2 twiki had 3 sec once i added all twiki.org content it dropped to 12 sec after some optimiztion (disable subwebs and other stuff) it improved to 9 sec None has looked at performance on 4.2 lately. I did not measure since 4.1. But for sure we do not have 3 seconds on our server at work. Which is an old HP Even 4.2 running on a laptop in a virtual machine answers faster than 3 seconds Our Twiki-implementation is also much faster. i will update the topic Peter: Thanks. Let's move on. ---++ 5. TWiki Meetups That discussion is frustrating at best. We cannot help ... we covered the berlin one no news on other ones Yup. ---++ 6. Merchandizing thsi is missing in agenda lets add it Okay. will came up with a new nice design for t-shirt