[12:03]
peterthoeny: hi andre, martin, oliver, rich, sven, markus, vicki
OliverKrueger: I will only follow with one eye. Please ping me, if you want me to comment.
peterthoeny: who is actually at the keyboard?
peterthoeny: lets give it a few more min
[12:07]
Rich_Morin: peterthoeny: I have a few items to suggest for discussion,given time.
MartinSeibert: Vicki: You were praising the TWiki forms earlier.
MartinSeibert: What do you do with them at Yahoo!?
MartinSeibert: Can you name some applications that actually work cool at Yahoo with these forms?
VickiBrown: I've been doing a lot of TWiki apps for my team
VickiBrown: I have found that, nce you do One app, it's easy to think another thing needs an app too
VickiBrown: I just wish I could attach two or more forms to a page :(
OliverKrueger: VickiBrown: Try Michael's Workbench.
[12:10]
VickiBrown: a plugin?
OliverKrueger: A paradigm, I would call it. :)
VickiBrown: we've done a project tracking system (I did a talk and demo on that at Silicon Valey Meetup)
VickiBrown: and our runbooks (troublshooting info) is a web as app
OliverKrueger: VickiBrown: Its packaged in a Contrib in svn.
[12:11]
MartinSeibert: Okay.
VickiBrown: OliverKrueger any URL?
VickiBrown: (I don't use svn)
MartinSeibert: I saw that video already.
OliverKrueger: VickiBrown: No, its not on t.o.. atm (since 2006) its only avail via svn.
peterthoeny: shall we start with the meeting?
peterthoeny: who is facilitating, who is taking notes?
[12:14]
VickiBrown: I can post an IRC log
peterthoeny: i can facilitate
peterthoeny: who is updating the meeting topic with key points?
peterthoeny: can you do that vicki?
VickiBrown: I can try :)
peterthoeny: thanks :-)
[12:15]
peterthoeny: proposed agenda:
peterthoeny: #Ê 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
peterthoeny: # 2. Blogging
peterthoeny: # 3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: # 4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: # 5. Brainstorming for Ideas
peterthoeny: anything to add?
VickiBrown: Newsletter (I need to do one)
Rich_Morin: As I said above, I have some items, given time.
OliverKrueger: # 6. Items from Rich
peterthoeny: ok:
[12:17]
peterthoeny: #5: Newsletter
peterthoeny: #6: Items from Rich
peterthoeny: #7: Brainstorming
peterthoeny: ---++ 2. Blogging
peterthoeny: actually, newsletter is part of blogging
VickiBrown: or vice versa
MartinSeibert: I have a comparison of TWiki and Sharepoint ready in German.
MartinSeibert: I need to do some Q&A on it.
peterthoeny: here we go again:
peterthoeny: #1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
peterthoeny: #2. Blogging and Newsletter
[12:19]
peterthoeny: #3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: #4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: #6: Items from Rich
peterthoeny: #7: Brainstorming
peterthoeny: ---++ 1. Usability & Home Page Redesign
MartinSeibert: Then I will have that translated and posted to TWO-Blog also.
MartinSeibert: Oh. Sorry.
OliverKrueger: MartinSeibert: What do you mean by Q&A? Do you need somebody to read it first?
MartinSeibert: I thought it was blogging already. :-)
MartinSeibert: Oliver: I did not write it. Somebody else did it for me.
[12:20]
peterthoeny: sorry, my mistake
peterthoeny: i missed 1.
MartinSeibert: So I have to check the results first. :-)
peterthoeny: i have nothing to say on home page redesign besides that i like arthur's latest design
peterthoeny: posted at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewNavigationModelForTWikiDotOrg
peterthoeny: time to implement
MartinSeibert: So do i.
peterthoeny: any other feedback on 1. ?
VickiBrown: I have no disagreements
MartinSeibert: And it is one (!) search box! Perfect!
OliverKrueger: :)
[12:21]
peterthoeny: actually the missing jump box is something that we should do about
peterthoeny: such as enhance the code of search to have the jump functionality
OliverKrueger: natsearch does some sort of hybrid.
peterthoeny: back to blogs
peterthoeny: ---++ 2. Blogging and Newsletter
MartinSeibert: As I said. I will have additional posts in the future.
peterthoeny: martin, do you have the german version on twiki/s.p. posted publicly?
[12:24]
MartinSeibert: Not yet.
MartinSeibert: It will take a while.
MartinSeibert: Our latest posts were translations from Stewart Mader: http://blog.seibert-media.net/tag/wiki/
MartinSeibert: That is why is blogged little in the past on TWO.
peterthoeny: chris hogan posted two blogs recently
peterthoeny: it would be nice to see more blog posts on how twiki is used in a structured way at work
MartinSeibert: Oh.
MartinSeibert: I have this, that I could blog about.
MartinSeibert: This one: http://cli.gs/eeR30Q
peterthoeny: thanks martin!
MartinSeibert: It is my presentation on WikiSym2008
VickiBrown: MartinSeibert: that would be good
VickiBrown: I liked that
[12:27]
peterthoeny: lets talk about newsletter
peterthoeny: vicki?
VickiBrown: peterthoeny: I don't have much to say except that if I tell youall (publicly) that I need to cut a newsletter, that will force me to do it :)
peterthoeny: go for it :-)
peterthoeny: you are the newsletter master, schedule is up to you
[12:29]
VickiBrown: Aug 10 there was a TWiki 4.2.2 fast patch release
VickiBrown: is that "old news" now? Or something that should be in newsletter
peterthoeny: ah, good point on release
peterthoeny: we have soon (?) the 4.2.4 patch release
peterthoeny: kenneth estimates beginning of nov
VickiBrown: should I wait? Or ask Kenneth to write a pre-announcement?
peterthoeny: question if we want to wait for 4.2.4 or not
peterthoeny: we will send out a separate announce for patch releases anyway, so there is no need to wait i think
VickiBrown: ok... so don't mention 4.2.2 (too old) and don't mention 4.2.4 yet
peterthoeny: yes
[12:32]
VickiBrown: MartinSeibert: when could you have a post about your slide show?
peterthoeny: or if you want, in intro you could mention an upcoming 4.2.4 patch release that fixes many bugs
VickiBrown: We have 6 items now (since the last newsletter)
Rich_Morin: Hmmm.Ê what about a "release status" section that simply mentions recent and upcoming releases of the base release and major plugins?
peterthoeny: where would that "relase status" section be? (i like the idea)
peterthoeny: time check: +34 min
Rich_Morin: defers to The Editor
VickiBrown: top :)
[12:35]
peterthoeny: ah, in the newsletter, yes up to editor
peterthoeny: i was thinking somewhere on twiki.org too
VickiBrown: peterthoeny: In effect we have Release info on twiki.org now. We could modify the blue box with the link to Codev/DownloadTWiki to include somehint about "info on past and current releases"
peterthoeny: we have a release summary page that shows all releases in one table
MartinSeibert: Vicki: I will ask my colleague to do it.
MartinSeibert: We will create a German one first.
MartinSeibert: I will have to ask for a translation then. Nothing fast I assume.
peterthoeny: anything else on blogging/newsletter?
VickiBrown: I have nothing else to add on blogging/newsletter
[12:38]
MartinCleaver: howdy
MartinSeibert: Hi Martin
MartinCleaver: No worries. I came with a marketing-related question :)
peterthoeny: ---++ 3. TWiki Meet-ups
peterthoeny: no meetups are planned at this time
[12:39]
peterthoeny: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiMeetUps
peterthoeny: it's actually time to do another silicon valley meetup
peterthoeny: i have been insanely busy and could not prioritize for a meetup
peterthoeny: but will do before the end of the year
Rich_Morin: Is doing a meetup in SV hard?Ê I mean, we have the facility and quite a few folks that would show up, given notice.
peterthoeny: any other regions that could organize a meetup?
Rich_Morin: BTW, Nov and Dec are typically low-attendance months, due to other, competing activities...
peterthoeny: in s.v. i'd like to ask a new company using twiki each time to host the meetup
Rich_Morin: But we could do a social gathering...
[12:41]
peterthoeny: makes it interesting
peterthoeny: ah, rich, such as a "twiki first" meeting on the first tue of the month?
OliverKrueger: I have to talk to the known suspects. Probabyl in Jan... :)
MartinSeibert: Oliver: Take 'em along and come to Wiesbaden. I will be your host with food. :-)
Rich_Morin: Rick Moen sez a regular meeting location is good - http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Linux_PR/newlug.html
peterthoeny: kewl oliver
peterthoeny: please post on twiki.org when you settle the date
peterthoeny: ---++ 4. Merchandising
peterthoeny: no news on my side
[12:44]
peterthoeny: any comments?
peterthoeny: ---++ 6: Items from Rich
peterthoeny: rich, the floor is yours
MartinCleaver: (You missed #5 Brainstorming)
Rich_Morin: I thought that was 6
peterthoeny: sorry, wrong numbering
[12:47]
peterthoeny: ---++ 5: Items from Rich
MartinCleaver: Is fine, go ahead
peterthoeny: go ahead rich
Rich_Morin: topic #1 - consultant pageÊ I'd like to see this using TWiki app technology.Ê eg, have each consultant list their time zone tags for speciaties, etc.
MartinSeibert: I like this idea
Rich_Morin: Then have one or more generated index pages to help folks find consultants...
OliverKrueger: yes, please go ahead and implement it.
peterthoeny: yes, i like this idea too
Rich_Morin: I'll see if I can interest The Editor in helping :)
peterthoeny: just go for it rich
[12:49]
MartinSeibert: I also think: We can only become better on that page. It is just the doing, that is missing.
peterthoeny: i like the idea of a detail page for each consultant
MartinSeibert: So do I.
peterthoeny: the table showing all consultants should stay reasonably small
MartinSeibert: Right you are.
OliverKrueger: With a new approach, there is also a chance to filter out old/outdated entries.
peterthoeny: e.g. if we split up into detail pages, consultants can write more in their own detail page
Rich_Morin: topic #2 - I'd like to apply more TWiki app technology to the plugin pages.Ê But first, we need to decide what information should be indexed.Ê Vicki and I have discussed, for example, the notion of having a list of criteria for plugins.Ê If this existed, the plugin pages could indicate how well the plugin meets the criteria.
Rich_Morin: sorry, didn' mean to cut topic #1 short
peterthoeny: could you explain more in criteria?
[12:52]
OliverKrueger: Which kind of criterias do you have in mind?
peterthoeny: no, topic #1 is given :-)
Rich_Morin: I'm not a TWiki wizard, so be patient.Ê Possible criteria might include conformance to TWiki syntax guidelines, use of plugin ordering infrastructure, etc.Ê Basically, what are the "rough spots" we see in plugins...
peterthoeny: we currently have the tested on version field, and can query on that
Rich_Morin: that field looks a bit like free text, from the samples I looked at (:-)
VickiBrown: perhaps first a proposal on basic criteria?
VickiBrown: e.g. things I've noticed, doing apps... some plugins don't play nicely with GLUE. Some don't need GLUE.
VickiBrown: some don't respect <verbatim>
VickiBrown: variations in parameter format... gotchas
peterthoeny: glue?
[12:56]
VickiBrown: GluePlugin
peterthoeny: ah
VickiBrown: even if Glue is loaded early, some plugins have subtle breakage if you try to use GluePlugin
VickiBrown: becasue they weren't tested with it (not everything expects that)
peterthoeny: there is less of a need for glue plugin going forward since twiki allows now to have variable span multiple lines
VickiBrown: that will be nice
peterthoeny: we could lobby the authors of plugins that depend on glueplugin to remove that dependency
MartinSeibert: Sorry, I am reading but not able to contribute ... :-)
Rich_Morin: VB has also noticed that some plugins don't have a good set of examples - that could be a criterion
[12:58]
peterthoeny: yes, examples are a must have
peterthoeny: performance data a nice to have
Rich_Morin: OK, VB and I will come up with a starter page for criteria
peterthoeny: good
Rich_Morin: suggestions and additions welcome :)
peterthoeny: create a proposal in the codev web
peterthoeny: any more items rich?
Rich_Morin: no, tnx
peterthoeny: ---+ 6. Brainstorming
peterthoeny: i have to sign off now
[1:00]
peterthoeny: i will reconnect in a minute, but just to log
peterthoeny: please continue
peterthoeny: thanks all!
MartinCleaver: Martin - I note you commented on the need for SubscribePlugin on TWiki.org
MartinCleaver: What do you think about http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/UseTWikiDotOrgPageSubscriptionsToRetainCommunity?
MartinSeibert: Jup.
MartinCleaver: Pages on TWiki.org are (mostly) written to by valid user ids with associated emails. Why are we not using the list of editors of a page to auto generate page subscriptions, so that when someone edits they get emailed if someone else replies?
[1:04]
MartinCleaver: Because we don't do this:
MartinCleaver: Ê Ê * the community loses all the passes by who come in, ask a question but never see the reply.
MartinCleaver: Ê Ê * the community loses key answers from core people who were involved in a question but happened to miss the update in the flow of content flowing past them.
VickiBrown: MartinCleaver:Ê interesting idea
MartinCleaver: We need something like SubscribePlugin for TWiki.org
VickiBrown: but a variation
VickiBrown: if you want to say "pre-subscribe me to pages I create"?
OliverKrueger: (please make it optiional) ;)
VickiBrown: this is so common on forums
MartinCleaver: Yes, auto-subscribe to anything you create or edit
[1:05]
VickiBrown: of course, optional
VickiBrown: but global
MartinCleaver: on by default
MartinSeibert: I commented online: "I completely agree with that idea. I cannot implement it. But it would be also a great plugin for enterprise wikis based on TWiki!"
MartinSeibert: Jep, I like it.
MartinCleaver: Just subscribe plugin on T.org would be useful
MartinCleaver: It's the first step
MartinCleaver: any objections to that?
VickiBrown: none here
MartinSeibert: none here.
[1:07]
VickiBrown: will there be any performance issues?
MartinCleaver: Polling could be done by a second machine, or at quiet times
MartinCleaver: Please vote on http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/UseTWikiDotOrgPageSubscriptionsToRetainCommunity?topic=PleaseInstallPluginsAtTWikiDotOrg
VickiBrown: SubscribePlugin uses MailerCOntrib - very nice and useful
VickiBrown: at Y! we run the crontab nce a day
VickiBrown: once a day
MartinCleaver: y
MartinCleaver: Should be so uncontroversial that it's not worthy of discussion
MartinCleaver: Ok. Let's conclude that done then.
[1:14]
VickiBrown: thanks MartinCleaver for the link. I did not know about that page
VickiBrown: I have added my "I want" plugin :)
MartinCleaver: ;)
MartinCleaver: I built that page a fair while ago now
MartinCleaver: 5 years. Sigh
VickiBrown: I wonder if we should give it more visibility... similar to TWiki enhancement requests
VickiBrown: I never know were to make requests for twiki.org explicitly :(
MartinCleaver: Please do!
VickiBrown: I'll have to think of hwat to suggest
[1:17]