[12:26] *** Initial topic: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WysiwygEditorMeeting2007x09x17
[12:26] *** #twiki_editor: PeterThoeny SvenDowideit_ gmc SteffenPoulsen 
[12:26] *** #twiki_editor was created on Mon Sep 10 12:21:15 2007.
[12:28] *** DavidAllen has joined #twiki_editor.
[12:29] *** ArthurClemens_ has joined #twiki_editor.
[12:31] DavidAllen: Hi everybody, thanks for joining.  I'm just finishing up lunch here, we'll start in 
        another minute or two.
[12:32] *** CDot has joined #twiki_editor.
[12:32] CDot: Good evening!
[12:33] PeterThoeny: hi arthur, crawford, dave, koen, steffen, sven
[12:33] DavidAllen: Good [ morning | afternoon | evening ] to everyone
[12:33] ArthurClemens_: hi
[12:33] *** Lavr has joined #twiki_editor.
[12:33] PeterThoeny: hi kenneth!
[12:33] Lavr: Hi Peter and gang
[12:33] DavidAllen: do we have a volunteer to help out with meeting minutes?
[12:34] CDot: I will take notes
[12:34] CDot: I expect a short meeting :-)
[12:35] DavidAllen: Thanks, yes, this meeting will be shorter than the others.  you'll probably have time 
        for a pint before the Marketing meeting :)
[12:35] DavidAllen: I just want to thank you again for all of your work, Crawford, on the WYSIWYG
[12:35] *** rodbeckstrom has joined #twiki_editor.
[12:35] DavidAllen: I am very happy overall with everything, and I think I speak for everyone in that regard.
[12:36] DavidAllen: I have incorporated the Sep 13th release of WYSIWYG / TinyMCE into the Certified TWiki
[12:36] PeterThoeny: hi rod! (sitting next to me at twiki.net hq)
[12:36] ArthurClemens_: hi Rod
[12:36] DavidAllen: build, with great results, except for two small items.
[12:36] rodbeckstrom: Hi Arthur!
[12:36] DavidAllen: hi rod
[12:36] rodbeckstrom: Gruessi mit einan!
[12:36] DavidAllen: The WYSIWYG does not automatically disable NatEditContrib decorations, which means
[12:37] CDot: DavidAllen: I think you will want Sept 17
[12:37] DavidAllen: that currently they don't coexist seamlessly.
[12:37] CDot: sorry, Sept 16
[12:37] DavidAllen: That, and a feature request to add text color (and, one day, background color) to the 
        WYSIWYG features.
[12:38] DavidAllen: I think that is something that people will be requesting, esp. since it was present in 
        the Kupu editor.
[12:38] DavidAllen: Does the Sep 16th release have any effect on NatEditContrib?
[12:38] CDot: I replied to David directly on that one, as it was email and not via Bugs web
[12:39] CDot: David, if you'd like to open an enhancement request on Bugs web, I will paste my response there
[12:39] CDot: regarding natEdit, I have no idea; I have been focused on 4.2, which doesn;t ship NatEdit
[12:39] DavidAllen: I will do so, Crawford.
[12:39] Lavr: The NetEdit issue is mainly a skin issue.
[12:39] DavidAllen: understood.  NatEdit was a "nice to have"
[12:40] DavidAllen: any idea of the effort required to fix the NatEdit / skin problem?
[12:40] DavidAllen: is it something easy or time-consuming?
[12:41] CDot: no idea, I'm afraid
[12:41] DavidAllen: Lavr? Crawford?
[12:41] DavidAllen: Difficult to estimate at this point?
[12:41] Lavr: NatEdit is a welcome feature in a future TWiki release but it is not in 4.2.0. So it has to be 
        addressed in updates of PatternSkin AND NetEditContrib.
[12:41] CDot: Sven was going to talk with me about it, but we haven't crossed paths yet
[12:41] PeterThoeny: shall we look at the action items of prev meeting?
[12:41] DavidAllen: OK, then that's the resolution.
[12:41] DavidAllen: sounds, great, peter.
[12:42] PeterThoeny: i asked che dong to help out on editor testing
[12:42] PeterThoeny: he agreed to help out on translation
[12:42] PeterThoeny: in what form can he help on testing?
[12:43] PeterThoeny: i can ask him
[12:43] CDot: just by typing chinese into topics
[12:44] PeterThoeny: ok, just informal poking :-)
[12:44] PeterThoeny: next action item: create help page
[12:44] PeterThoeny: done by crawford, carlo, arthur i think in twiki web as supplemental doc
[12:44] CDot: Kenneth did the work
[12:44] CDot: I believe
[12:44] PeterThoeny: is this doc linked to in the distribution?
[12:45] Lavr: Carlo made it look pretty
[12:45] CDot: yes
[12:45] ArthurClemens_: I did not review the help text, other than that it contains too much text at this time
[12:45] CDot: it is included in the TinyMCEPlugin package
[12:45] PeterThoeny: cool
[12:45] PeterThoeny: these are all action tems
[12:46] CDot: I put some points in the Status of the agenda
[12:46] ArthurClemens_: so we need to weed out a couple of bullets that are not meant for edit users
[12:46] ArthurClemens_: before this all gets translated
[12:46] CDot: ArthurClemens_: I already dropped a couple of FAQ points
[12:46] ArthurClemens_: ah, ok
[12:46] CDot: see the help on d.t.o
[12:46] CDot: edit a random bug e.g. one queued for feedback from you
[12:47] Lavr: Yes. I did not include more than a couple of FAQ items. I rewrote the whole thing
[12:47] Lavr: I think the text now is very fine and Carlo did a good job on the graphics and looks
[12:47] ArthurClemens_: heh
[12:47] CDot: I still get the help coming up open every time I edit a bug, though
[12:48] ArthurClemens_: and where is that bug report?
[12:48] CDot: even though my TWIKIPREF cookie says not to :-(
[12:48] CDot: wanted to check to see if it was just me first
[12:48] Lavr: Cjecking
[12:48] Lavr: spelling after that
[12:48] ArthurClemens_: I don't have this problem on Mac FF
[12:49] ArthurClemens_: I will check the other browsers later
[12:49] Lavr: IE6 is OK
[12:49] Lavr: on XP
[12:49] CDot: and for me too
[12:50] Lavr: FF on XP OK too
[12:50] ArthurClemens_: o my, that help text is enormous
[12:50] Lavr: Yes. But it is good
[12:50] CDot: yes. You see why I find it annoying :-/
[12:51] ArthurClemens_: nothing I would throw away
[12:51] ArthurClemens_: perhaps a matter of layout...
[12:51] CDot: anyway, there were a few points I raised on the agenda
[12:51] ArthurClemens_: something like TextFormattingRules
[12:51] CDot:   Test international character set support   Internationalisation (plugging in alternative 
        existing language packs to TinyMCE? , based on setting of TWiki language)   Minor feature 
        enhancements   Explore other plugins available from Sourceforge   More testing! 
[12:52] CDot: CheDong will do "Test international character set support" I hope
[12:52] CDot: Internationalisation - i think we're too late for 4.2
[12:52] CDot: "Minor feature enhancements" - I'm not going to do any more for 4.2 (no time, and high risk of 
        breaking something)
[12:52] ArthurClemens_: I don't know what the possibilities are for internationalisation
[12:53] PeterThoeny: hmm, we can't really release 4.2 without i18n support
[12:53] CDot: "Explore other plugins available from Sourceforge" - the form designer looks worth a play
[12:53] CDot: PeterThoeny: ? We have i18N support
[12:53] CDot: we just don;t transfer the TWiki language setting to TinyMCE
[12:54] CDot: and any end-user can customise TINYMCEPLUGIN_INIT to do that
[12:54] CDot: note that TinyMCEPlugin is a lot better internationalised than most plugins!
[12:54] PeterThoeny: CDot: i was refering to "Internationalisation - i think we're too late for 4.2"
[12:55] CDot: yes, I realise that. And I am saying, there are language packs for TinyMCE available from the 
        moxicode website
[12:55] PeterThoeny: no issue if not all help text is translated, but issue if multi byte text entered ends 
        up in mojibake
[12:56] CDot: that is "Test international character set support", not "Internationalisation (plugging in 
        alternative existing language packs to TinyMCE? , based on setting of TWiki language)"
[12:56] PeterThoeny: ok, so we speak the same language
[12:56] CDot: I believe international character sets work, but it needs testing
[12:57] CDot: I have only tested the examples my euriopean testers provided (Steffen, to be exact)
[12:57] PeterThoeny: i will ask che dong to poke around
[12:57] Lavr: I just tried some Danish again and it looks good. ÆØÅ survives
[12:57] PeterThoeny: 3 min to #twiki_marketing
[12:57] CDot: excellent; IRC killed it :-)
[12:58] PeterThoeny: any other important items for edtor?
[12:58] CDot: just the ones I mentioned
[12:58] Lavr: That is my mIRC that uses a shit locale setting
[12:58] CDot: there will be more bugs, I am sure; but I think TMCE is ready for the beta
[12:58] PeterThoeny: kenneth: a word on betra release date?
[12:59] Lavr: Well. I had expected Sven to build one days ago. Maybe I should do the physical release.
[12:59] Lavr: I would be ready bugs wise NOW
[12:59] CDot: Sven builds every night
[12:59] CDot: he is very sick (flu) at the moment
[12:59] Lavr: Oh. I see.
[12:59] CDot: so don;t rely on him dooing it
[13:00] DavidAllen: point of order... we are out of time...
[13:00] Lavr: Well. I should try a build then to see if it works on my install. Did not try since the Build 
        contrib was updated
[13:00] PeterThoeny: ok, thanks all, lets convene at #twiki_marketing
[13:00] DavidAllen: I want to thank everyone for participating, and especially thank Crawford for making TWiki 
        so much more accessible to non-technical users.
[13:01] CDot: Lavr: the updates shouldn't affect building a release in any way
[13:01] CDot: they were just for the compress target
[13:01] CDot: Can I make a final suggestion?
[13:01] Lavr: There is a small change - Sven fixed a bug related to MANIFEST location
[13:01] CDot: I don;t think we need any more of these special meetings
[13:01] CDot: we can cover WYSIWYG in the normal release mweetings
[13:01] Lavr: I may call in soon for a special meeting on the XSS issue.
[13:02] CDot: ok
[13:02] Lavr: To get ideas
[13:02] Lavr: One of meeting
[13:02] * CDot has one, but Lavr isn;t going to like it >:-)
[13:02] rodbeckstrom: some of us are now on the #twiki_marketing irc chat
[13:02] CDot: ok, sign off here
[13:02] Lavr: CDot. Share it
[13:02] Lavr: on the bug item