Uses for Frames

-- Page created by AndyGlew - 26 Jun 2003

This page is for a discussion of using frames in TWiki. Probably this is just a skin issue, and possibly this topic should be moved to the Plugins web, but I am starting it here in Codev because that's where I found the discussion of frames that I am summarizing and responding to.

Attempting a summary:

• Eliminating having to scroll to get commands. See MinimalFramebasedSkin
• keeping an overview (e.g. TreePlugin) visible while browsing/editing
• TWikiAsWebCommentaryTool (LynnwoodBrown)
• speeding up redraws (not applicable to MinimalFramebasedSkin)

Bad Aspects of Frames

• Frames discussed in earlier TWiki
  • Basically, frames are user interface, not core functionality. They belong in a skin.
  • Frames don't work everywhere
  • CSS is better(but CSS doesn't work everywhere)
  • Prevents deep linking
    • The frame usage model in MinimalFramebasedSkin does not prevent deep linking

Examples and Topics of Frame Usage

A Minimal Frame Based Skin

Attached is an example of a minimal header only skin. view.minimal-frame.tmpl defines the frameset, and reinvokes two slightly different view skins, one for the header, which just contains commands, and another for the actual page, the display window, which can scroll without losing the stuff in the header.

• view.minimal-frame.tmpl:
• view.header-only.tmpl:
• view.text-only.tmpl:

It uses the existing wiki template system for both frames. It redraws the entire frameset, both frames, on every page access. _top is specified as the base target.

The main thing that it gets you is the ability to scroll the text frame independently of the frame that contaiins the commands, like edit.

I suppose that I could package something like this for the Plugins web, but I don't think it is really ready for prime time.

Discussion

Interesting approach. I've not tried out your templates, but looking at the source you haven't supplied a content <noframes> sections. Also it's been mentioned elsewhere (haven't got the ref handy, someone please edit it in) that having a static menu bar can also be implemented with CSS. (That said, unlike CSS this just requires frames and if a noframes version was supplied this would probably work with things like cable set top boxes as well)

• Plugins.SeeSkin does this with css. Unfortunately it only works for Mozilla and Opera, IE users are in the cold. I've seen a work around for IE but haven't tried hard to implement it (it broke some other stuff). -- MattWilkie - 30 Jun 2003

Good counterexample !

BTW, your anchors for subject headings aren't necessary - they get generated automagically if you put %TOC% on the page. I've changed it so that your anchor still works and TOC links the heading correctly.

-- MichaelSparks - 30 Jun 2003

Other uses for frames

From time to time I have also thought of design features and/or applications for TWiki where frames make sense (to me at least). One example is TWikiAsWebCommentaryTool where you'll find some discussion regarding pros/cons of using frames.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 26 Jun 2003

ViewingAttachmentsInline talks about using frames to make it easier to see attachments.

I've added a note ShorterURLs explaining how I have used frames as parrt of a redirection script to obtain shorter URLs without requiring Apace's alias or rewrite engine.

-- AndyGlew - 11 Aug 2003