(part of the SignatureNetiquette topic)

The standard signature is nice but can make some pages not very legible for some ThreadMode pages for:

1. long contributions: separation of paragraphs it is not clear: visually the signature do not seem to belong more to the previous paragraph than the next one
2. very small contributions (one liners such as "me too", "I agree"...)

What could be the solutions? We may tolerate some other forms of signatures, but which ones?

closer to text have the signature with a preceding <br> like this:
-- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003

visually different render signatures in a different style, options:

• specific tag: have users type things like:
  <div class=sig>-- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003</div>
  note that this could be just <sig>-- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003</sig>
  with the PseudoXmlPlugin
• TWiki syntax: have the core recognize "\n[-][-] $mainWebname[.]" lines and expand them in the above

For, instance, with the CSS: .sig {text-align:right; margin-top: 0px; font-size: 85%; color: #555555;border-bottom:1px dashed #888888}

all on one line (see also TerserSignature), possible forms:

• I agree -- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003
• -- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003: I agree
• I agree - CN
• CN: I agree

Side note: The KoalaSkin (try it at http://koala.ilog.fr/wiki/bin/view/Test/WebHome) offers 3 triple-clickable cut-n-paste signatures: full, terse, and just the date (for people without JavaScriptDatePickerForForm)

-- Main.ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003	<-- Ready to copy & paste signature
- [[Main.ColasNahaboo#16Oct103][CN]]	<-- terser signature
16 Oct 2003	(triple click under most browsers)

Suggestions?

BTW, I realize that my TerserSignature patch is not in the core yet. Objections to its being "core-ified" ?

-- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003

Why don't we use the wikipedia method of using three tildes ~~~ or four tildes ~~~~ to insert just the name or name and date respectively on topic save. This way the sig could be inserted with whatever formating you want and if it changes in the future it isn't a surprise to the user. This decouples what the user has to insert or remember to type from any format or styling.

I really like this idea. It also has the added benefit of not caring whether the user home page is in a web called Main or Users or People or... If we extend the idea a bit more, each topic could have sig-mode metadata flag where mode is one of full, medium, terse, at-end, etc -- MattWilkie - 16 Oct 2003

-- SamHasler - 16 Oct 2003

Well, I like this idea too. Tildas are OK, or we could use a TWiki-style system (the --- prefix, so maybe ---~ for the terse one, which will not force a line break (span), and ---~~ for the long one, which will force a line break (div)?

-- ColasNahaboo - 16 Oct 2003

I don't see how that is any more TWiki than the wikipedia format, and besides I'm lazy and don't want to have to look for two keys (not counting shift for all the pedants out there) when one will do fine.

-- SamHasler - 17 Oct 2003

I'm with Sam on this one, dashes are for headings and section breaks. Using the number of tildes to determine the length (style) of the signature is a good ideas too.

-- MattWilkie - 17 Oct 2003

Another benefit of using PseudoXml to identify sigs would be that you could change the output format at a later date for all sigs without having to do a mass search and replace.

It would also allow different output on a per web/topic/user preference as Matt suggested above. So I could choose to see all signatures as long signatures while someone else could choose to see signatures collected at the bottom of a topic under a contributers heading, and someone else who has no preference see them as whatever the default for the topic is.

-- SamHasler - 20 Oct 2003

As a side note, this was not the original issue: what prompted me to create this topic is that I am used to use a shorter signature when I only contribe one line to the discussion, but on TWiki.org Peter re-edits my signatures to put them into the "policy-legal" form.

So in order to avoid this waste of time, I though it was time to see if we could have other forms of signature "legal" on twiki.org, it was a policy issue first rather than an implementation one

-- ColasNahaboo - 20 Oct 2003

Hmm, I haven't carefully read all of the above, but I thought I'd mention what I try / would like to do over on WikiLearn. Over there, I usually have a section at the bottom for contributors to the page. My intent is to:

• beside the point: enter a contributor's name only once, for the first contribution (on that page) (after all, the details of his contributions are in the revision history)
• include a brief comment marker (usually the contributor's initials) in parenthesis before the entry

In other words, something like this:

Contributors

• (rhk) RandyKramer - 20 Oct 2003
• (se) SomebodyElse - SomeOtherDate
• ...

Then I feel free to mark short contributions with my initials, something like — rhk, sometimes also including the date.

Since not that many people use the convention, duplication has not yet been a problem, but at some point we may need to avoid duplicates by, for example, appending a number (rhk001) or similar.

-- RandyKramer - 20 Oct 2003

Colas: Sorry if I took this off-topic, but I thought it would be easier to accept more than one signature format if it could be seen that there was a way of implementing it that was simpler than the current method. I think the implementation talk should be refactored out to a new topic perhaps SignatureShorthand.

-- SamHasler - 20 Oct 2003

To randy: this is not very different than my terse signature: - CN (just moving your pointer over it shows you the full name and date of comment)

To Sam: well, we can have both. I was just pointing out the original problem, but having nice ideas flowing is always welcome

-- ColasNahaboo - 21 Oct 2003

"just moving your pointer over it shows you the full name and date of comment"

It took me a while to work out you meant on the status bar. Better yet, add a title="ColasNahaboo -- 21 Oct 03" attribute to the anchor and have it on a tooltip SH.

-- SamHasler - 22 Oct 2003

Re: "To randy: this is not very different than my terse signature:"

Agreed! But it is less typing , and I was trying to address the policy issue by hinting that maybe the approach I adopted on WikiLearn could be considered as an alternate acceptable policy.

-- RandyKramer - 22 Oct 2003

• To randy: it is no typing at all when it is offered as cut-n-paste in the skin like KoalaSkin does
• To Sam: yes, but then your signature become a bit too big in edit mode...

-- ColasNahaboo - 27 Oct 2003

I was assuming it would be stored in some XML format like <sig date="28 Oct 2003">SamHasler</sig> and it would display in the shortened format I suggested, or any other format depending on web/topic/user preferences. Note that this conveniently doesn't specify which web the users home topic is in.

-- SamHasler - 28 Oct 2003

---

Building on some of the ideas expressed, I'd like to see a signed comment feature. Text enclosed by ~'s should be considered signed, rendered in a style defined by the user (variable on the user's page), and the appropriate (up for debate, maybe also a user preference?) signature added. Maybe have two options, terse and verbose signatures.

By having a markup for signing the entire whole comment, it becomes easier to filter the unsigned content out of a page (the DocumentMode stuff), which would be useful when collaborating on documentation. I've often wanted the ability to have a generate document button on a page which would filter out all of the discussion while leaving the content, and turn it into a pdf. But currently it's impossible to programmatically determine what is content and what it metacontent.

For example, the following wiki text:

~BTW, I like the tooltip example up above. This whole comment is tooltipped.~

~~But the signature should be verbose~~

would render as:

BTW, I like the tooltip example up above. This whole coment is tooltipped.

But the signature should be verbose. -- ScottGargash - 25 Nov 2003

Where the color, the italics and the form of the actual signature would all be set via user preferences.