Discussions around TWikiAdvocacy

See also TWikiAnnouncementsRefactor

-- PeterThoeny - 23 Feb 2003

I happened across a site dedicated to intranet design today and discovered they didn't have a single mention of TWiki and only two occurances of wiki (in articles about extreme programming). I don't have the time (or knowledge for that matter) to help rectify that lack so I thought I'd pass on the link to others who might. Thus the birth of this page.

-- MattWilkie - 26 Nov 2001

Wikis in general aren't widely known - they are in "certain circles", but those areas are somehow easy to miss. The fact that I'd been a total guerrilla Web developer since early '95 - meaning, scrounging around for Perl CGI scripts, cool indie-developed Web dev tools, and the like, to create an indie, public content site (and building a site with six figure monthly unique visits by '98)...and only discovered Wikis (shock, HORROR) in 2000, while actively looking for better group interactive tools, says something.

So the question of Wiki advocacy, not to mention TWiki advocacy (a fairly other thing itself, IMO), should perhaps be preceded by clarifying the role of Wikis and Wiki promotion. Is there a "mission" or "cause", even if only implicit, in involving people with Wikis? Certain people, presumably most regulars here, for example, find the Wiki concept logical, sound, distinctly alternative to the collaboration norm, and a very good thing. But they also recognize that it's a fairly radical departure in thoughts-about-software for the majority of people - especially corporate people, trained in a Microsoft world. The vast majority of open source software projects use message boards, not Wikis, for support and dev discussion - one site, http://phpshop.org, just switched from a TWiki to a BBS (I should write and ask why). Yet an open content project like http://wikipedia.com generates tens of thousands of public entries on all topics in a matter of months.

Is the emphasis in T/Wiki "advocacy" on simple publicity, or more on evangelism? If the latter, why?

-- MikeMannix - 27 Dec 2001

Slanted to simple publicity, but with a dollop of evangelism too. As for why: I have spent a great many hours learning and deploying TWiki and other similar systems. To my mind TWiki is "best of breed". I hope that people more skillfull than myself will discover and use TWiki, and in the process fix all the little bugs and gotchas which have been tripping me up. I still spend more time learning/deploying/customising/fixing Twiki than actually using it. Though at long last the balance is finally beginning to shift.

-- MattWilkie - 04 Jul 2002

I submitted a short twiki blurb to http://cmsinfo.org/ .In the process of composing I noticed that a short "About Twiki (the software)" description is not part of the main twiki documentation. E.g. the contents of the front page on http://twiki.org/, should be included in TWikiDocumentation.

-- MattWilkie - 02 Jan 2003

That's a great idea!

-- GrantBow - 04 Jan 2003

Main.TWikiAnnouncements has links to the TWiki blurbs. Plan to refactor it.

-- PeterThoeny - 05 Jan 2003

Peter is there an article at Perl.com about TWiki? I think there needs to be one like the one for .Kwiki (KwikiWiki) at http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/05/14/kwiki.html

-- MartinCleaver - 16 May 2003

Let's hope review article at Perl.com will be written after new nice default skin is added and installation is simplified dramatically.

-- PeterMasiar - 16 May 2003

cross-posted from the cms mailing list

Good morning/afternoon,

My name is Karim Yaici and I am doing a Master in Information Systems at Southampton University, UK.

I am conducting a survey on the use of Open Source content management systems (CMS). The research project in concerned with the professional use of Open Source content management software and the motivations driving organizations to use it (as opposed to proprietary software). The project will form part of a master research dissertation.

I would like to talk to a person responsible for IT decisions and/or administration in your organization. The person should be able to answer questions about your organization's IT decisions and should have a basic understanding of the technical issues.

Your answers will remain absolutely confidential and the survey results will be presented in an aggregated format only. It will not be possible to draw conclusions about your company from the research results. May I ask you for about 5 minutes of your time to answer a few questions?

The questionnaire is available at http://www.soton.ac.uk/~ky202/survey.htm.

Thank for your time and consideration.

Best regards,

Karim Yaici

-- MattWilkie - 28 Jul 2003

Just noticed a reference to TWiki on Socialtext web site (a wiki-clone based on KwikiWiki). Actually it's a comment about one company that started with TWiki but eventually switched over to Socialtext. Here's the quote:

"An engineer at Stata Labs, which sells e-mail and antispam software, set up its first wiki last June, using an open-source product from TWiki.org, one of the many informal suppliers of wiki software. It gradually caught on among the company's other engineering teams, but problems popped up as it became more popular. For one, it was difficult to include people from outside the company, including contract programmers. What's more, using TWiki required programming skills that many in the company lacked, and the system didn't adequately back up all the valuable information that was accumulating in the wiki."

I thought it was worth noting here by feedback on where TWiki doesn't meet peoples needs.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 14 Jan 2004

... Especially if the text is from a third party source - in this case the Wall Street Journal. The original is only available to WSJ subscribers here, however social text has a permalink with the text.

(Looks like the problems related to authorisation & authentication)

-- MS - 15 Jan 2004

The issue was that the engineer at Stata Labs installed TWiki without involving the IT department. So a hosted solution was more suitable where backup is included. Here is the e-mail I sent two days ago to the editor of the WSJ article:

> Dear Michael,
>
> I am the lead developer of TWiki at TWiki.org. Thank
> you for mentioning TWiki in your article.
>
> TWiki is specifically targeting the corporate world
> as you can see from the mission statement on our home
> page.
>
> I would like to provide some feedback on your article:
>
> > For one, it was difficult to include people from
> > outside the company, including contract programmers.
>
> Some companies install TWiki on the DMZ so that the
> content can be accessed by contractors.
>
> > What's more, using TWiki required programming skills
> > that many in the company lacked,
>
> TWiki is a Wiki but also a web application platform.
> Programming skills are only required for web developers
> who develop new TWiki applications; regular users can
> get up to speed and use TWiki quickly.
>
> > and the system didn't adequately back up all the
> > valuable information that was accumulating in the wiki.
>
> TWiki is tyically installed on a Unix or Windows server
> sitting in the corporate data center where it gets backed
> up by the IT folks. The setup does not apply if a company
> like Stata Labs uses a hosted solution.
>
> To get a quick overview of TWiki please read my recent
> presentation for the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group at
> http://TWiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiPresentation07Jan2004?slideshow=on&skin=print#GoSlide1
>
> My next presentation is on LinuxWorld in NYC on 21 Jan,
> http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/linuxworldny/V40/conference/session.cvn?eID=319
> It would be my pleasure to meet you there.
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions. Also, it
> would be great of WSJ could write an article on open
> source Wikis.
>
> Regards,
> Peter

-- PeterThoeny - 15 Jan 2004

The word "wiki" only appears twice on the front page of http://twiki.org - this might have something to do with search listings.

• Moved TWiki Google ranking table to TWikiGoogleRanking -- PTh - 30 Jun 2006

Clearly people who know they are looking for a wiki are not hearing about TWiki through google.

If I was looking today for an open source project, I would still seek to compare different packages. This is where I would look, none of these places have TWiki listed.

• http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Perl/WWW/Scripts/Content_Management/ and on
• http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Internet/Site_Management/Content_Management/ and on
• http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Internet/Site_Management/Content_Management/Open_Source/

May I suggest we make a priority brainstorming our Dmoz Catelog Entry for inclusion onto this?

• Site URL:
• Title of Site:
• Site Description:

updated I also note that TWiki did not get rated in PC Mags round up of Wiki services (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1402875,00.asp - the articles don't need registration but the PDF summary does) (perhaps because they did not find it when googling) - this survey included Open Wiki, Swiki, Seedwiki and TeamFlux (a variant of Zwiki) and Social Text (a variant of Kwiki). I think TWiki would have done quite well, based on their list of requirements. They have a interesting list of prioritised features (registration required), the notable omissions for twiki include:

• WYSIWYG editing, "add comment" and easily implemented Spaced out wiki words, per-page counts (not just top 10) and use of style sheets.

If I was looking to survey corporate collaboration packages I'd probably have a budget. In that case, I'd look to a publication that categorised and ranked collaboraion packages. KmWorld for example, where we are not listed but could aim to be.

-- MartinCleaver - 08 Jan 2004

I think the best strategy would be to modify the copyright tag, as this appears on all TWiki pages. To add something along the lines of: "TWiki is a full-features open source Wiki. Learn more at twiki.org."

This to help Google making the right connections.

-- ArthurClemens - 08 Jan 2004

A very easy way to get twiki noticed would be to create a freebsd port and a netbsd package; i.e. a small "makefile" with equally small "patches" which allow running under those o/s's.

Unfortunately, twiki is not downloadable by url (i.e. w/o registration), so this is not currently possible.

• This is not the case for a few month now, TWiki production release can be downloaded by URL.

-- JonathanCline - 12 Jan 2004