Question

Hi,

I searched the twiki site, but could not find an answer to my preoccupation.

In a single web, I want to build some hierarchy - software, logic, verif, physical -. In fact I have more like a dozen "top-level items". Each of those items has in turn like ten or twenty topics.

How can I write WebLeftBar so that the dozen topic are present, and the one which is current gets automatically (or manually) expanded to show the sub-items, while the other main topics stay collapsed ? (a bit like a Java tree, or the leftbar of MS-Windows Explorer, or Koala Webtree).

If not, could somebody point me to a DHTML menu code that would work well with the WebLeftBar, and allow for "hover" menus ?

I'm using the default pattern skin

Hope I'm clear, and Thanks for this great tool

Environment

-- GillesEricDescamps - 19 Oct 2004

Answer

No answer yet, but some additional pointers.

• I found that the excellent hierMenu that I was using freely in v3.x around 2000 has now gone commercial :(. (still have the 3.x files, though)
• ul2menu : interesting javascript code that turns an embedded <ul><li></li><ul> into a menu.
• menubar : get the look-n-feel of an application inside your html pages.

-- GillesEricDescamps - 19 Oct 2004

I don't have a complete answer for you but I have thought along the same lines. I would like to simplify the left menu and have more options appear on hover. Here's another approach I found: http://www.csscreator.com/menu/multimenu.php

It doesn't strike me that it should be too difficult to integrate one of the options into PatternSkin. The place to start is looking at the definition of .twikiLeftBarContents Style class.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 19 Oct 2004

Good website Lynwood ! So I added the multimenu.css at the end of TWiki/PatternSkin/layout.css, and edited templates/twiki.pattern.tmpl, and bingo! I had my menus showing up. I've atteched patches against TWikiCairo.

• multimenu_for_pattern_try02.zip: Patches to implement multi-level menus

Category: TWikiPatches

-- GillesEricDescamps - 19 Oct 2004

Well done Gilles! I've been wanting to see that for awhile. Thanks for jumping on it and I look forward to trying it out.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 20 Oct 2004

Yet another alternative is the RenderListPlugin where you can define the tree centrally in one location and show it focused around the current topic. For this case here, the Plugin probably needs to be enhanced with a switch to show all level of the first level (currently only the path up to the tree top is shown)

-- PeterThoeny - 20 Oct 2004

I looked at render list plugin, but it's not what I'd like. Let me explain how I understand the differences when displaying 10 topics of each 12 sub topics:

• render list plugin:
  • rendering: static (at page load time)
  • displays: 22 topics in one-click (10 top + 12 of expanded level)
  • real estate taken: 22 topics (no popups)

• multi-level menus:
  • rendering: dynamic (upon mouse movement)
  • displays: 120 topics in one-click (10 top + 10x12 of expanded level)
  • real estate taken: 10 topics (just hovering on one of the 10 top topics will instantaneously popup another menu of 12 topics.)

This is my way to address complaints that there is no hierarchy on a twiki. I can build a popup menu hierarchy which gives a hierarchy feeling, while the underlying implementation (Topics) is still flat. I consider this to be very important in my evaluation.

-- GillesEricDescamps - 20 Oct 2004

You might look into the TreePlugin; offline rendering could generate the kind of JavaScript you need.

-- PeterKlausner - 22 Oct 2004

There's a couple of threads of this discussion. One is the larger question of options for creating hierarchical organizational (real or virtual) with TWiki. The other is the narrower question how to provide hierarchical navigation in menus, which is what I understand this topic to concern. For me, it speaks to options simply to simplify the apparent menu structure.

One of the more common complaints I hear from new users about wikis (and portal software in general) is that the menu structure is too complex. The Codev web is a prime example of this. (Granted, newbies are not out target audiance). But I have long been interested in using css pop-up menus to simplify my navigation menus. Gilles gave a good start and I hope to tweak it a little so that it more seamlessly fits with Pattern skin look.

As I write this, another possible approach that uses existing TWiki tools occurs to me. I wonder if one could use TextSectionPlugin to create expandable menus in WebLeftBar? Follow up a few minutes later... Well, I can report that this strategy almost works. The display works nicely. I used level 4 heading for the section and then had a bullet list of links under that. The problem is that the expand/contract link written into TextSectionPlugin jumps you to the menu topic itself. I will make a note in TextSectionPluginDev to see if this could be addressed.

-- LynnwoodBrown - 22 Oct 2004

There is no need to have javascript to make the menus pop-out. At http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html Eric Meyer shows how to do it with pure CSS. When I get time I'll look at this in more detail. I really prefer not to have to use Java or Javascript or other mobile code. Too much like letting malware in.

-- AntonAylward - 27 Oct 2004

Anton: this site you mentionned says that their pure CSS code does NOT work with Internet Explorer, while the one mentionned by Lynnwood does. (and I prefer Any Browser over no-javascript).

-- GillesEricDescamps - 27 Oct 2004

I suggest you look at the date on that and also look at the various sites that tablulate what features are implemented to what degree in which briowsers.

Eric wrote that in the days of IE4.

I'd also point out that an increasng number of organizations block code downloads for security reasons:

• executables of any form
• files that end up as executed such as .scr
  Microosft have a list of over 30 of these and explicitly recomend that they are blocked at the firewall
• files that contain macros or visual basic
• pages that require ActiveX to display
• pages that download Java code that executes on the client
• pages that download Javascript that executes on the client
• ZIP files that are password protected so that the firewall scanner can't see and scan what's inside them

There's a lot of malware out there that is a payload for interesting stuff. Yes, porn appeals as a carrier to those with overactive hormones, but "neat toys" appeal to lots of other people.

-- AntonAylward - 27 Oct 2004

Anton, I do understand your concern for security. My platform is a local intranet for a small community on a local network which is rather open.

I don't need to look at the dates on that. Those CSS menus on that website worked with my Firefox 1.0PR1, but failed to popup with MY ie 5, and MY ie 6. I know a lot of my users that use those IE.

Having hierarchical popup menus was very important in the buy-in process at my site. The first complaint is that everybody is scared of having a thousand pages flat. They don't see how they are going to access/organize those. By offering popup menus, I offer them a logical hierarchy (on top of the flat physical implementation) they are used to. If I did not have that as an answer, I would have run in trouble in deploying twiki...

-- GillesEricDescamps - 27 Oct 2004

Ack

1. Except for my testbed here at my office, all the TWikis I've deployed are internet accessible and hence the browsers communicate over the Big-EYE
2. I checked my logs and it sets - WOW - none of my users have used any flavour of IE in the last two months. I see a few "gecko in IE compatability mode" entries.
3. Someone told me that Eric maeyer had an "fix" for the IE mishandling of nested <ul> problem in his new book. I'm still truying to find out details.

I suspect doing it in CSS will also be faster - at the very least less for the server to download

-- AntonAylward - 27 Oct 2004