Question

I feel very stupid, but I just don't understand forms at all - not one little bit. There's not even the faintest glimmer of understanding. Its very disappointing.

I say that, and then I finally see a form -- there it is, at the bottom of this page. I'm sure of it!

Please please please can't we have a decent forms documentation. Give an actual worked example, trivial, but complete. Soup to nuts. I have read the twiki forms docs. I've read the questions and the answers and its all so much gobbledeygook because its often self-referential, or definitions don't ground out. (i.e. form templates are defined in terms of forms, and fields. forms are defined in terms of ... form templates. fields for templates are not (IMHO) fully defined - are the ones listed examples, or must they exist? Where do they exist? ).

So, for example, I just want to make a form where a user can add some raw text and select from a drop down. I'd love an example.

Thanks,

TobyFerguson P.S. I'd love to answer these questions below, but sitting at my browser I have no idea how to find them out from my normal Twiki site - is there a button I can push which would give me these answers? Presumably Twiki "knows" the answers!

• TWiki version:
• Perl version:
• Web server & version:
• Server OS:
• Web browser & version:
• Client OS: Windows

Answer

Note: This is not fully an answer. I would agree with Toby concerning the documentation above. At my workplace, we have begun to consider using webforms to help indexing our content. For this, I dove into the documentation to find out just how it really works. I could actually make pretty good sense of it, but none of my colleagues could. I ended up writing a brand-new page, detailing step-by-step how to go about creating forms.

I will post that description here when I get back to work.

But the main point of that is that perhaps the documentation could indeed be better. I'll honestly admit that I've never actively contributed to twiki.org itself, but perhaps this is the sort of thing I could do to help. I'll seriously consider this, but certainly I can start out by posting the step-by-step guide I wrote.

With regard to your PS note, you can at least specify the client data: what's your own pc running? Win98 + Internet Explorer 5.5, for example. The TWiki version is also listed in TWiki.TWikiVariables (it's also given in the variable %WIKIVERSION%: TWiki-6.1.1-branch, Sun, 02 Jul 2023, build 31079). With regard to the server software versions (server OS + Perl), I don't actually know.

-- TorbenGB - 09 Mar 2003

I agree that the documentation could be better, but even more, the terminology could be better.

Have you seen my notes in the Support.FormsConfusion topic? If not, take a look.

I'm sort of and old timer (at least in some respects) to me forms are just a special means of handling data. To me what you need to understand first is the different types of data that TWiki can handle. From Support.FormsConfusion, here is a table summarizing those types of data (modified slightly today):

(TWiki) Data Type	Free Format/Structured	Visible/Hidden
Traditional Wiki	Free Format	Visible
Metadata	Free Format	Hidden
"Forms", both tables	Structured	Visible
"Forms", 1st table only -- note 1	Structured	Hidden

Note 1: I think you could use the one type of form to create hidden structured data, but not necessarily display it. It would be hidden metadata, that could be displayed by other means if desired. And people have asked for that capability -- it's one use for the proposed function . See FormattedTWikiFormDataInTopicText (and, to a lesser extent, EditControlsBasedOnFormDefinition).

By structured data I mean data that can be somehow constrained -- for example, if you want a piece of data and want it only to have certain defined values, it is "structured" (maybe there is a better term).

An example of a piece of structured data is the variable SupportStatus, with possible values "AskedQuestions", "AssignedQuestions", "AnsweredQuestions", "ClosedUnanswered" (and, to confuse you "Select one...".

In TWiki, if you want to have structured data (hidden or visible) the means to create and view it is with "forms" (or the form tables). (And, to take it a step further, you create the data with one table that is accessible on the edit screen, and you display the data with a second table that displays it on the view screen. If you want the data to be hidden, just don't create the table for the view screen.

The next step then (which I have not attempted to cover) is to learn how to create the table that lets you create structured data, and, if desired, the table that let's you display it. (If you only want to display some parts of it there is a FormField function that has either been recently added or is coming soon -- try searching for it.)

I guess there might be new timers that have an intuitive gut understanding of what a form is on a web site -- for an old timer like me, I need to recognize and remember that a form is just a way of handling data -- in fact maybe instead of calling it structured data I should call it "handling data in a structured way".

If this helps at all, let me know where it didn't help -- I think there is a whole group of people (like you and me) that have a great deal of trouble understanding what forms are all about -- there's got to be a way to make it easier.

-- RandyKramer - 10 Mar 2003

Wow Randy, talking about data structures makes me even more confused. But thanks for linking to FormsConfusion, it fills in a few gaps as well. (It seems like there's a lot documented already in many places, but the trouble is finding it...)

I wanted to say that I've posted my step-by-step notes on FormsStepByStep -- please take a look at it and see if it's useful...

-- TorbenGB - 12 Mar 2003

Sorry that talking about the types of data adds to the confusion -- it helps me so I'm guessing it may help some other old timers like me.

FormsStepByStep looks excellent -- it's the other half of the story -- a concise step-by-step set of instructions for implementing a form. Thanks!!

-- RandyKramer - 12 Mar 2003