Note to TWiki site administrators
TWiki has now a new logo, a big "T" in a speech bubble convenying "working together", with a "collaborate with TWiki" tag line.
A consistent branding is important for the TWiki project. People will recognize a TWiki site immediately if the new logo is used consistently. Therefore, older TWiki brand logos such as teamwork tools logos and logos based on Twiki robot should no longer be used. Of corse, TWiki is open source, so site owners can use the logos at their descretion.
This is a friendly request to increase the exposure and name recognition of TWiki:
If you run a TWiki site and are using older TWiki logos (not your own) we would be very pleased if you change the logo to the new "T" logo. DiscontinueUseOfOldTWikiLogos describes the how-to.
New TWiki Logos
I'd like to present PeterThoeny
and the TWiki community at large with a new set of original, high-resolution logo art. It's a custom identity design by Walter "|2|" Costinak of 2 Design
, which he is donating to the project, if you'll have it.
The last major issue with TWiki that had to be resolved before I could finish deploying it, was the fact that the TWiki mascot is the character "Twiki" from Buck Rogers in the 25th Century
. The charcter is currently being used by the TWiki software without license from the Dille Family Trust, which controls the rights to the Buck Rogers franchise, including the Twiki robot character. For a company deploying the underdog TWiki software with a very public face, the last thing anyone wanted was an intellectual property and trademark infringement lawsuit. And we couldn't not have logos at all, as it made the TWiki web area feel unprofessional and incomplete.
Since I started this page in September 2001, the issue hadn't been resolved, and I haven't had time to draft a letter to the Dille Family Trust to ask their permission for the use of the character. Walter, who was doing the rest of the design and art for the site, said he'd put together a design for our use, and use of the TWiki name was approved by PeterThoeny
. It's now deployed on our site
, making us infringement-free.
After it was done, Walter offered to donate it to the TWiki community at large. So, here it is.
There are four main designs, all focused around our new TWiki logo, two vertical and two horizontal. The TWiki logo itself, resembling two wrenches coming together, can also stand comfortably by itself, as it does on our TWiki site
, visible there as part of the header art in the upper right hand corner. Here are sample versions of all four:
Flat color versions, without the color burst in the center, are also available, as are versions suitable for use on a dark background. Large raster versions with the colorburst are provided, a slew of various-sized smaller versions, plus vector versions in EPS, AI and CDR formats.
I suppose a credit to Walter would be nice to have, especially if the main TWiki software adopts the logo. I can certainly see a new set of templates based around the logo, perhaps in a socialist realism motif...
Perhaps something like "TWiki identity design by 2 Design, www.2design.org" on the bottom of TWiki.WebHome
, with the other attributions, would be nice.
The Old Mascot
I don't know what other companies have done about the issue with the Twiki character, but we decided it wasn't worth the risk. If someone still wants to go ahead and try to license the character's use as the official, sanctioned mascot for TWiki, the Dille Family Trust holds the copyright and trademark on the Twiki character, and has stated that although they are not actively licensing it, they would consider a special case licensing, submitted in writing, including return contact information (address and fax), to:
Dille Family Trust
P.O. Box 533
Lake Forest, IL 60045
We're no longer interested in using it, but I'd certainly be personally interested in any outcome.
Any questions or comments? The files are attached below, and the old versions of the infringing artwork I produced have been marked hidden.
- 02 Feb 2002
Awsome! Hope some people don't take offense when I say that the TWiki Robot character has always made me cringe. So much so that I didn't want to place in on my website
. I made a text link instead. These new logos give that much needed 'professional appeal'. I've even stuck a 'Powered By Twiki' logo on my site
- 03 Feb 2002
Hey, thanks for trying it out! I love the site, by the way. Might have to steal some ideas for my next TWiki implementation.
Just a thought, though. In the "medium" PSD zip are premade versions of the logo designed for dark backgrounds, like EvEm
's. I took a minute and made one using your background color
from that area of the site, and I think it looks better
than the sample one with the white background I pasted here. Let me know if it works better for you. I know Walter tried to provide several options, since one logo style and color definitely doesn't fit all.
-- - 03 Feb 2002
I really like the new logos, they have a much cooler look than the current one. I think I'll start using the Powered by TWiki ones straight away! My only nitpick is that the 'R' in Teamwork looks a bit odd - I know the word has a mix of upper and lower case letter forms, but an upper case 'R' form would look better, at least to me.
- 04 Feb 2002
Excellent! This will add some spice to out-of-the-box default TWiki installation. I am going to install it right now! Thanks!
- 04 Feb 2002
This is great stuff! Lets roll out the new logo with the new simplified skin. Vito, thanks for enabling this and making it available! Yes, we will place a credit to 2 Design.
Very nice touch with the color burst. BTW, my first impression was a propeller when looking at the logo, as in "propeller powering a web site". But now I see the two wrenches, and it makes sense with the "teamwork tools" slogan.
- 05 Feb 2002
I prefer the 'Teamwork Tools' slogan - it's snappier and a bit less jargonesque. Also, it doesn't include a 'B', which in that font is quite illegible (surely it shouldn't have the top horizontal bit...)
- 05 Feb 2002
Okay, I'm not speaking for Walter here, but I did agree with his design decisions, so here are my
reasons for them. I'll wait until we hash this out a bit more before I ask him to redo bits. They're also pretty US-centric reasons; I know people in other countries tend to be more intelligent about some of these things, but IT in the USA doesn't have the luxury of having consumers with common sense.
First, I think the weird capitalization of TWiki is confusing. You don't know whether it's pronounced TEE WIH-kee
(my first thought) or TWIH-kee
when it's like that, and the fact that it's unclear is enough for some people to skip over it. They've got better things to do than worry about how to say the name of the software they're considering running their big expensive intranet on, because it's much easier to say "Lotus Notes" than risk saying "TWiki" wrong and looking like an idiot.
If the logo is in all caps, then it's for aesthetics, both visually, and mentally. There's no confusion about what it is, or how to say it when you read it in your head.
As for the URL, I think the "www." was a good thing to leave in. "www." is indicative of the Web to John Q. Public, who still has trouble with sites that don't end in ".com". Having only "twiki.org" there doesn't make it intuitively obvious to some people that it's actually a site address. And using "http://twiki.org/" is really
obvious, but slashes in the logo will make it ugly. I think making sure "www.twiki.org" resolves is a small price to pay for the potential added viewership.
Finally, Walter and had I discussed the "Teamwork Tools" text at one point. Doesn't that mean the same thing as "Collaboration Platform?"
I had actually suggested "Teamwork, Tools" with a comma between them, meaning those were the two things TWiki engendered. I do agree with Richard that it's much catchier than the buzzwordy "Collaboration Platform." Not to mention it's shorter and makes for a nicer logo. Please tell me you faked those letters, Peter! They're horribly ugly.
One other thought. "Teamwork Tools" is a much simpler, low-key, unpretentious, almost humble way of saying "Collaboration Platform," which I'm sure brings to mind grandiose ideas, which TWiki isn't entirely undeserving of, but perhaps it's also a little bit pompous, too. But that's just what I'm reading into it.
So, I'm biased in thinking the logos should stay, but I think I've got decent reasons for that. You guys' turn!
- 05 Feb 2002
I Vote for the original TWIKI Teamwork Tools logos!
Vito was very kind and made some especially for the background colours used on EvEm
. They're slick, eye-catching, unique and make for a very professional look.
- 05 Feb 2002
I vote for TWIKI Teamwork Tools too! Word Teamwork
has added bonus: letters TW, so we can pretent that it was Teamwork Wiki
from very beginning!
I know Germans are used to long words, but Americans are not (I am not american), so let's forget about collaboration
(5 syllables!) if we can just do teamwork.
I read interesting book (forgot the name) about company branding, and author made an example from TWA airlines, where 3-letter acromym had more syllables, than full name (TransWorld), and how it hurts image and prevents growth. Let us be Teamwork Wiki, with motto TWiki IS Teamwork!
I also propose small change in capitalisation of teamwork to TEAMWORK:
IMHO letters EA are more pleasant to eye now, E rhymes with MW, R with A, and K with R. And easier to read. YMMV.
Of course it is crude pixel hack, I am not designer.
- 06 Feb 2002
The vertical logo with all that text makes the top of each page too tall. I am using the logo by itself:
I must say, I was
surprised by the transparency, which causes the image to be rendered in the web's background color. Way cool.
- 06 Feb 2002
Guys, I think you should all heed the wise words of PeterThoeny
"Lesson learned: Better let professionals do their job professionally ;-)"
- 07 Feb 2002
Nice logo Vito, and definitely worth using. I would however like to register one small reservation. : )
The defining characteristics of a tool are, generally speaking, hard, cold, and unchanging (tough).
The defining characteristics of a collaboration forum are, generally speaking, changeability, flexibility, and, in a healthy one, warmth.
While the 2design logo accurately captures the former it doesn't do much for the latter. In turn the mascot Twiki is a better image of the latter and only obliquely approaches tool-ness (being a robot). Twiki is certainly a tool, and a good one at that, but in a world abounding with tools it has something which sets it apart. That something, for me, is character and community. As such a representitive logo would be a character.
When I close my eyes and say "Twiki" I think, perhaps not surprisingly, of Rudyard Kipling's Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. A mongoose in an O'Reilly style of woodcut naturalist linedrawing. Perhaps wielding a tool of some sort, more likely a pen or a keyboard. with spectacles and a knowing look.
So, the opposing wrenches is a good professional image, I'm just not so sure it is the Twiki
- 07 Feb 2002
I like that, except maybe the choice of mongoose -- it would be interesting to see somebody draw that up.
- 07 Feb 2002
First, I'd just like to say that directly taking the samples that are inlined on this page to use on your own sites, or to cut up for example variations, isn't going to give you the highest quality variants.
If you open up the "medium PSD" zip file below, even in Paint Shop Pro on Windows, or TheGimp
on Linux (or Windows), you'll be able to edit the background color layer and generate an appropriately colored image for your site, both with the colored burst, as well as in a flat color logo version without it. Also, a larger raster version with the colorburst is in the "huge" file, and there are three vector flat color versions there, too.
Now, back to the discussion at hand! I think we should clear a few things up, first. The artwork here is a logo symbol (the two wrenches), and a logotype (the stylized "TWIKI" word). The robot is a mascot. They're all different.
is supposed to be stylized text of a product name. A logo symbol
is supposed to be a simple, scalable visual that represents a product or brand. And a mascot
is supposed to be a character or creature that represents the feelings or ideas of a product or brand.
Technically, the art here replaces the blue and brown TheGimp
-generated "TWiki" logotype, and provides a new logo symbol, and throws out the infringing robot mascot. Logos and logotype are supposed to be fairly permanent, as they help build brand identity over a long period of time, and are used everywhere
. They're on corporate letterhead and business cards and on websites and in brochures and in magazines. They're blown up big for posters, and scaled down small and in flat color for paperwork.
They're part of a product's identity. They're not meant to elicit an emotional response: look at the BMW shield, or the McDonalds arches. They're brand identity, a symbol, an abstract representation. I think as logos go, the two wrenches are good ones. TWiki is a software tool that engenders collaboration, but it's not collaborative and friendly in and of itself; it's inanimate! People
are collaborative and friendly, and all TWiki can do is give you the tools
to support that process.
We tried stylizing the robot into a logo, and it just didn't work. I'm not sure a mongoose would work as a logo either, without risking looking like the symbol for an Audubon Society. I think the more important question, before this gets too off track, is why you want a mascot at all?
I can't think of a single commercial software product or computer- or IT-related company that has a mascot. TWiki isn't a consumer-level product where you need a Ronald McDonald or a Pillsbury Doughboy. Your competitors in the groupware market barely have recognizable logos; what is the symbol for Lotus Notes/Domino? The "R5" logotype in the circle? Or for Exchange? Is it that green envelope and clock in the box? I still don't associate that with "Exchange," even though I see it every day; the symbols for Office and Notes both change with each new version, so neither has any mindshare in that regard. Even IBM (stylized blue text on black), Lotus (stylized white text on black in a yellow box) and Microsoft (stylized text) all have logotypes, but none have symbols, and none have mascots.
In the open-source world, there are mascots everywhere, but few logos or logotypes, except for all the products that strive for commercial recognition. GNOME has the foot logo symbol, KDE has the stylized K with the gear. Red Hat, Debian, even Apple OS X, they ignore the Tux penguin and the BSD daemon mascots, and have their own symbols, in order to establish their own identity. Instead, you have a red fedora, a swirl coming from a bottle, and the stylized "X" logotype. All are abstract symbols that don't bring across any feelings or emotions, just represent the product.
Don't confuse the purpose of the artwork. It's goal was to give a solid, professional image, something to anchor the TWiki product
to, not the TWiki "feeling." If you're targeting a corporate user, as I was, then I think that's what you need. Mascots are great for the users, the fans, the developers, the teams, and I think it'd be great if TWiki had a good one (or two, one holding each wrench!), but not instead of a logo symbol
, not if you're trying to build an identity that a company looking to implement the software can feel comfortable with.
- 07 Feb 2002
Hi Vito, I accept your clarification of the definitions of logo, logotype and mascot and acknowledge you are only targeting the first two.
Logos and logotype are supposed to be fairly permanent, as they help build brand identity over a long period of time, and are used everywhere.
Which is exactly why I spoke up now. It is no good to disagree with a particular branding effort once the symbols have been chosen and acted on. : )
[logos are a] part of a product's identity. They're not meant to elicit an emotional response: look at the BMW shield, or the McDonalds arches.
I must respectfully disagree. A symbol which does not convey an emotional package is useless as a logo. Adding a portable bundle of feelings to a meaningless squiggle is what advertising and branding is all about.
When spoken of, the McDonalds' arches are usually twinned with the word 'golden', which is certainly an emotion laden term. Not too mention the "tits of America" Freudian interpretation. BMW's shield may be just a symbol now, but when first created were meant to symbolize the spinning propeller on the front of a BMW engine, shielding the skies during the Great War. [Assuming the scene on this subject in the movie "Finding Forrester" is correct]
You're right, IBM & Microsoft don't have a logo per se. And nor do a lot of other IT companies now that I think about it. Perhaps this is because when these older companies got their start in IT graphics were just a dream while text consoles a reality. When the major (only?) communication medium is text and your target is the literate professional, word branding is what works.
Instead, you have a red fedora, a swirl coming from a bottle, and the stylized "X" logotype. All are abstract symbols that don't bring across any feelings or emotions, just represent the product.
red fedora = echos of the grunt private investigator or journalist; Dick Tracy, who sports a two way radio wristwatch. A geek icon to be sure. The feelings are cool, sporty and cocky.
swirl & bottle = genie, magic, your wish is our command, all things are possible. The feelings are freedom and power.
Don't confuse the purpose of the artwork. It's goal was to give a solid, professional image, something to anchor the TWiki product to, not the TWiki "feeling."If you're targeting a corporate user, as I was, then I think that's what you need.
In my corporate world, it's the TWiki feeling that matters. If I am unable to communicate the feeling, TWiki will probably be a no-go. Our office is inundated with inanimate software tools that users can't change and feel powerless to really understand or operate effectively. As a result, most of the tools are under utilized in the extreme.
I think I see where part of our cross-purposes are coming from: I don't need to sell a professional image to the IT department (that's where I am), I need to portay a solid "this is easy and effective" to people down the line. The corporate users, not the buyers.
I guess the difficulty I have with the spinning wrenches is that, well, it would work just as well for any progam which promises to allow teamwork. It's too generic. I admit I was confusing, well conflating really, logo with mascot. But, it wasn't mascot that I was after, though that is where I ended up, it's character. The red fedora and the bottle-swirl both have character which I just don't see in the spinning wrenches.
Thank you for clarifying the issue, and my thoughts as well. : ) In the end though, it doesn't matter to me -- I'll be using TWiki anyway, with the spinning wrenches just as easily as the robot, because it gives me a good... feeling
shall we say?
- 08 Feb 2002
I don't have anything to say against this.
Perhaps something less like a character
, and instead a symbol with more character
, should be considered, then?
And as an aside, I didn't recognize the two wrenches the first time I saw the logo. Looked like a propeller, or two robot hands.
- 08 Feb 2002
This discussion seems to have died... Conceiving an original logo that looks good in flat color isn't as easy at it might seem.
I've already adopted the two wrenches for another TWiki site I've deployed, and my internal documentation has it as a watermark. I do like it, but I've been thinking about MattWilkie
's comments as well, and this is what I've come up with:
What about having some splash/concept art done, taking advantage of the two wrenches concept, to show the ease of use, the friendliness, the collaboration, to people down the line?
In the classic IT example, use a socialist realism
style to have two workers, say, a suit and an engineer, turning a pair of facing wrenches (in the same direction!) around a glowing bolt, standing on a vast field of documents. Design the art around the the two wrenches in the center to make sure the TWiki logo itself is centrally and obviously represented.
It works in other fields, too. For an OS discussion site, show Tux and the BSD Daemon pushing two wrenches around a bolt into the back of a PC, again with the two wrenches coming together into the TWiki logo in the center of the image.
Wouldn't these types of imagery, with the "Teamwork Tools" tagline (because regular people don't use platforms
to get their work done, they use tools
, right? Perhaps that's why Walter chose that term, now that I think about it), show the kind of "feeling" you're trying to sell to your users? People working together? Management and engineers, secretaries and bosses (or whatever), pushing in the same direction, toward the same goal, collaborating effortlessly?
And you get to keep the pretty logos that are already made.
- 24 Feb 2002
I'm surprised this discussion died. Weeks ago, after the 8-Feb post, I was on here for at least half an hour, MAYBE MORE, typing anwers and deleting, and then I went away leaving nothing. It was all discussed so well, all round.
Ultimately, all I wanted to say was, on practical, creative, karmic and various other levels - quite apart from his having final approval - the slick logo should be something PeterThoeny
is completely comfortable with. I guess I didn't feel I was conveying that properly at the time.
My quick comments, from memory and glancing:
- I general agree with Matt on all points (whatever they were
- The logo definitely does the job as a...presentation accessory: it has that at-a-glance pro-art feel ("used pro artist, not clip art" - check)
- the graphic image I didn't get, just focused on the bright spot: "what's that glowing bright spot?"
- the type was cool - maybe I was prejudiced by the explanation of the motivation behind the design, to pass as a generic corporate logo - but it seemed to successfully blend a bunch of trendy styles of recent years: Japanese, machine-readable, Russian whatever? Anyhow, all-caps not a problem, doesn't change TWiki
- "teamwork tools" did not work: very "American generic", alliteration and impression off: begs you to take as a joke, what ISN'T a teamwork tool? "tools for teamwork", for example, doesn't look and fit as well - not a good substitute - but in meaning, at least the pause doesn't hang you up in deep puzzlement, but is a little serious: TOOLS for TEAMWORK, ahhh, if we both had a hammer... Didn't like TEAMWORK TOOLS... (If that's just me, it's easily tested...)
- Great package overall - wish it was universally loved, 'cause I'm aware of how hard logo design can be and the special talents of logo artists (even though they can reel off variations by the hundreds ;> and how costly. It would be great if Peter could go through the process as a regular client (ideally, with process shared online as well?!). Sounds like a logistical headache, maybe, but the logo would be great. Agree on a couple starting points, go through the variations, get help (here online) with copy to fit for a tag line description, get talked out of absolute upper/lowercase TWiki, etc. A lot to ask, but I think, given the whole breakdown of branding parts and their roles, above, the spirit of whatever can and should be embodied throughout, however subtly - and this is particularly appropriate w/ TWiki, the nature of the tool, the development to date.
Two cents (as in, kinda cheap) suggestion: maybe start from the WabiSabi
reference to imperfection and continual change, take that (over)simplification to make something slightly cracked, distressed, somehow broken?
Y'know, signifying, not a BREAKDOWN, but movement, blurred type, or a geometric shape with one jagged edge, that sort thing. or transformation, themes like that, but very simple, at-a-glance. A little obvious, but could be good...
- 07 Mar 2002
What speaks "psd"? on Windows? I luuv the new logos and must admit that the Twiki 'bot character (and the pink stripes) always made me shudder. Knowing that Twiki was a Buck Rogers character hasn't helped in the least - better Robby the robot from "Forbidden Planet" and "Space Family Robinson" (two of "his" roles)
- 08 Mar 2002
PSD is Adobe Photoshop's file format. Most apps can read it, though; I use Jasc Paint Shop Pro for the limited artistic-type stuff I need to do, and it opens the EPS and PSD files here just fine.
makes a good point. Has the discussion on this changed what PeterThoeny
thinks of the logo?
He suggested rolling it into the main distribution, and asked about TWIKI versus TWiki, and Teamwork Tools verus Collaboration Platform. He gave his approval for us to use it (and a few other TWiki sites have since picked up on it), but apart from his original questions, he hasn't said much. I haven't yet asked Walter to make any changes, and wasn't planning on it until things got settled.
As for doing it over, obviously I wouldn't expect Walter to go through a new logo design process gratis
, but I'd probably consider sponsoring the effort myself if Peter wanted to actually sit down and take that route. I like TWiki, and I'd like to help it succeed further, is what it really comes down to.
- 08 Mar 2002
Dead AGAIN. I've been MIA elsewhere for a while, with lots to read, so maybe this has been settled elsewhere and I haven't caught up to it. But I still see TWiki in its corner. VitoMiliano
's generous offer of, well, donating a few K to pay for a new logo, I guess, is...more than generous. Is anything going on? 'Cause this was a 180 difference in logo direction - working with Peter and then maybe posting some stuff for input along the way ;> would no doubt do it.
- 04 May 2002
Well, obviously I'd prefer not to have to. I mean, there is
a perfectly good logo right here already.
We're using it all over the place (just deployed it lookin' all pretty on the Wearforge Wearables Wiki at http://wearforge.org/
), other people are using it; if there are alterations to the text
that Peter or others would like to try, and that can be agreed
upon to try, then I can certainly go back to Walter and ask him to make some revisions. But as he did this gratis
, I'd be hesitant to run to him every time someone wants to try something new or slightly different. That's the reason for the stagnation on my part, at least.
- 05 May 2002
On stagnation: I've been quiet on this topic because I've already said everything that matters to me. I don't have anything constructive to add at this point, some alternative graphics for instance. I wish I did though. : )
- 05 May 2002
I would like the new logo with "Collaboration" instead of "Teamwork Tools", but only if the font is changed to make it readable ("fix" the A, B, and R). (I really hate logos that are difficult to read.)
I don't think "Platform" is necessary with "Collaboration" (and if we used "Teamwork", I'd prefer it without the "Tools") -- I don't know that I have any good reason for that -- somehow TWiki tries to achieve collaboration, it's not just a collaboration platform. I'm alluding to the concept of things like the WikiWay
and so forth -- wikis and TWikis are not just platforms, but they inspire a culture to be built up around them. Thus, leave the "Platform" (or "Tools") off.
Just to avoid any ambiguity, the following is what I prefer, but with the upper case A, B, and R "fixed" to look more normal and thus be readable.
* "Collaboration" only version:
- 05 May 2002
Peter's silence is I guess the final word - no one else is shrieking. And Matt didn't leave much for me to strongly second this time around. Just now, those wrenches, spanners - TOOLS - jumped out. I guess I noticed 'em before; really did now. It's very cold and literal. Industtrial, like...an offshore oil rig in a cold cold sea! Anyhow, for the record, as popular as T/Wiki gets, few users will have their minds on the Wiki Way.
, do you think Walter would do a couple of simple "POWERED BY TWIKI"s, a standard 88x31, and two squares 48x48 & 64x64. All in the same typeface, no ital, y'know, small "POWERED BY" up top of big "TWIKI". Simple, legible. They'll be useful in the set! I'll grab the collection for other sites. Mayge I'll think of new text. Thanks!
(Couldn't resist: AIKIDO for imagery. Pure collaboration, in principle, at least. Geometric black and white shapes, blurred in motion!)
- 06 May 2002
After "sleeping on it", I am slightly worried about any negative connotation of the word "Collaboration" -- the possibility of association with the wartime term "Collaborator" -- does this worry anyone else? "Teamwork" would be OK, but for the layout of the design, a longer word like "Collaborator" just seems to look better.
Is "Cooperation" any better / worse? Other suggestions?
- 06 May 2002
For me, in my native language, collaboration has only one meaning - the nagative one RandyKramer
mentioned. I need to remind myself in english is different.
What about TWiki = T
- 07 May 2002
I find it so interesting how this topic dies every time there's a bout of discussion, just before anything gets resolved.
The different meanings of the word "collaboration" had never occurred to me before, and again I have to wonder if Walter had thought about all of this before.
What about making "Teamwork" more legible, as had been previously suggested, and changing "Tools" to "Wiki"? TWiki, Teamwork Wiki.
Obviously, this would change the "Collaboration Platform" byline that Peter Thoeny had maintained above, but it's interesting to find alternate reasons why that's not a good label for the software.
- 29 May 2002
I'm fine with Tools, and I think Collaboration has only a slight negative connotation to most people, but if Teamwork is preferred then that would be OK too.
I would really
like to see your logos included in TWiki as the standard - the first thing everyone deploying TWiki on an intranet has to do is to replace the existing logo, which does not exactly project a professional image... I have included the new logo in InternetExplorerSidebar
and the equivalents for Mozilla and Opera, but I'd like to see the logo go official.
Can we have a decision, please? If for some reason the existing logo is preferred, the new one should be shipped as part of the distribution, with simple instructions for installing the new logo.
- 30 May 2002
Well, I've asked Walter to make a couple new versions. I'm not sure what his schedule is like, but I'll let you guys know.
The first will be a proper version of PeterMasiar
's "more legible" version:
The second will be a "more legible" version of PeterThoeny
's "collaboration platform" version:
Both will have TWiki in mixed case, not all upper-case. I'm not sure whether "collaboration platform" should be on a single line or not; I left it up to Walter to decide. I definitely don't like "collaboration" by itself (or just "teamwork" by itself, for that matter).
I guess we'll line all three up, side-by-side, and get the PollPlugin
And for the record, just how is TWiki supposed to be pronounced? Is it TEE Wih-kee ("TakeFive Wiki" -> "T. Wiki" -> "TWiki")? Or is it TWIH-kee, or (ugh) even TWEE-kee?
- 31 May 2002
Good news about the update work! I find the 'b' in Collaboration a bit illegible, I hope that will be fixed. I've always pronounced TWiki as TWIH-kee, i.e. a short 'i' and by analogy with 'tricky'. No doubt continental Europeans will say TWEE-kee, like the old LYE-nux vs. LEE-nux debate
- 31 May 2002
Look for updated logo samples by the end of next week, sometime around June 19th.
- 13 Jun 2002
These new logos look very cool, but are near-to-fully unusable on russian sites: letter
like cyrillic letter
. Due to that, TWiki
is very easily read as Tshiki
, and that sounds very similar to pshik
- russian idiom for valueless result of long and hard work.
- 15 Jul 2002
My 2.5 cents: Love the logo. A bit uncomfortable with the "Teamwork Tools" tagline, though its much
better than the enormously geeky "Collaboration Platform". But I like the idea above about just using "teamwork". Why not play up the T-W pairing: TWiki TeamWork
. Or maybe TWiki TeamWorkspace
or similar? Actually I really
like that one! It's even a WikiWord
- 18 Jul 2002
Me, too! I like "Team Workspace" under "TWiki" -- and it's a very appropriate descriptive phrase for TWiki.
- 18 Jul 2002
Following a request by RichardDonkin
I couldn't resist pushing some pixels, so I created this
.ico icon. IMHO, the new logo looks much better as compared to some irrelevant robot. Good job!
- 22 Jul 2002
What's the current status of this? ( ... he asks, looking at his watch and BeijingRelease
I like the look of the logos, but I also feel the word collaboration is key. This is echoed in the TWikiMission
and in Peter Thoeny's solitary contribution to this topic. I may be biased due to my web page
. I think the effects of other cultures and languages is important as the Russian comment (connotation there is very bad) and WWII type "Collaborator" negative connotation. Choice of logos and key words in logos have a very large impact.
- 18 Jan 2003
Almost a year ago, VitoMiliano
wrote above, "I can't think of a single commercial software product or computer- or IT-related company that has a mascot." As I read this page for the first time today, these two mascots immediately came to mind: Clippy
Mascots aside, I am very impressed by the logo displayed at the top of this page. It will make TWiki appear more professional to my customers.
- 20 Jan 2003
What about Apple!? Insiders know about the dogcow too.
I agree the questionable legal status and gimicky current logo make it a very bad choice for a long term logo. Switching needs to be strongly considered for CairoRelease
. I like the graphic part of the logo very much.
However I also see that the logos have not been redone to include the "Collaboration" term that PeterThoeny
supports. I don't know what to do about concerns regarding the font but I see that as a relatively minor issue. Despite "Collaboration"s international implications, it's a word that in english is becoming better and better associated with software of this type. I have no idea where the "Teamwork Tools" tagline came from.
In short I would love to see this implemented.
- 21 Jan 2003
Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
Walter got swamped around the time we were expecting to finish up the logos, and since they were gratis at the time, I didn't push too hard for them. But now the artwork for our main TWiki site is up for some touch-ups, so I'll make sure the logo tweaks get included with that. I'll post again tomorrow or the next day when I know better, but certainly don't hold up the next release for these.
If you still want to replace the robot, you might consider just using the two wrenches part of the images, without the words. Let the updated, completed ones make it for the subsequent release. I can put up new PSDs and various sizes if no-one's comfortable editing them themselves.
Anyway, more in a day or so.
P.S. Microsoft killed Clippy. And Duke isn't used anywhere except for demos.
- Microsoft created a silly puppy to 'help' with searching on Windows XP. Funnily enough, it actually behaves like a puppy - I spend as much time tripping over the 'help' it provides as getting where I'm going. -- MattWilkie - 23 Jan 2003
- 21 Jan 2003
OK, so there are some pending issues to resolve. I don't want this work to go unnoticed, especially with the GRATIS efforts of 2 Design
. (great site, by the way) So let's break this out and solve them one by one. TWikiTagline
. Did I miss any important issues?
- 22 Jan 2003
IMHO you missed TWikiMission
And this list of pages should go above page footer, to stay on the end.
- 22 Jan 2003
Well, Peter, I was trying to create fresh topics for NEW issues to be discussed in particular in relation to this particular proposal. The Mission isn't at issue for a logo change, really. To me that's kinda a seperate discussion. I'd also like something to get done, to come to a consensus and to bring it to resolution and not thrash about, htting various other topics as a means to implementing a new logo.
Thanks for moving them down, that's great.
- 22 Jan 2003
How's it coming along, Vito?
- 27 Jan 2003
I've spoken with Walter about it. No ETA on the updates yet. Based on the additional commentary here, versions with the following changes will be made:
- The TWiki word will be properly capitalized.
- On images with the URL, it will just read "twiki.org", without the "www.".
- Versions with the "Collaboration Platform" and "TakeFive Wiki" subtitles will be made.
- The subtitle font will be more readable.
Personally, I think "TakeFive Wiki" makes the most sense for the images with taglines. "Collaboration" has negative connotations, "Teamwork" doesn't quite fit. Might as well stick with the original name if you're going to have anything at all.
- 27 Jan 2003
I'll be seeing about a schedule with Walter at the end of this week. I'll update the page after I know roughly when they'll be available.
- 05 Feb 2003
Vito, thank you again for the generous logo offer!
IRT "TakeFive Wiki", it a too specialized name, and TakeFive as a company no longer exists; it has been merged into Wind River. I do not think it makes sense to call TWiki that way. Changes I would love to see, as you summarized:
- The TWiki word with proper capitalization
- On images with the URL, say "twiki.org", without the "www."
- Versions with the "Collaboration Platform" (possibly with "Collaboration" only as well? This is up to the designer)
- Readable subtitle font. (Current font slightly modified? DIN? Verdana?)
In addition, a simple "Powered by TWiki" logo in the standard 88x31 pixel format would be useful for sites that want to add a linked TWiki logo alongside other tools.
- 05 Feb 2003
Thanks for your efforts, Vito!
- 07 Feb 2003
I would love a set of logos that I could use as direct name for name replacement for the current shipping logos. Has anyone assembled such a collection yet?
- 29 Mar 2003
An alternative mascot http://www.hasbro.com/playdoh/pl/page.dohdohbio/char.twiki/dn/default.cfm
I thought it would be fun to do an animated version of the logo, due to the dark nature of the skin in use on the TWikiSite
it was created for, this logo probably looks best on a black background, altho looking at it here, looks ok too.
Due to its size I don't expect this version to go into wide use, but you are welcome to use it if you like AFAIK, enjoy!
- 19 May 2004
has expressed some reservations about the logos; particularly that they are hard, focused on tools, and do not express the "social interaction" aspects of wiki technology. I agree, insofar as these logos don't give a "wiki feel" to the brand. So, sorry, chaps, but we aren't done yet. The logo has to express:
- Social interaction
Add any keywords are relefvant to the TWikiMission
There's an awful lot of conflict in that list. I'm no artist, but I thought I'd have a stab at it. The idea is to express friendship, teamwork and mutual support through the handclasp. Hard edges are used to express professionalism, sharpness, control. Features and flexibility I gave in on.
- 07 Aug 2004
I reckon Crawford is really onto something here.
If this concept could have the polished feel of the previous concept, it'd be just fantastic.
- 07 Aug 2004
Now I come to look at my pathetic effort and compare it with the HRL above, I realised a few things about Walter's design. Squinting a bit:
- It looks like the links of a chain, suggesting teamwork,
- The handclasp I used was suggested by Walter's image, which could be interpreted as a handshake,
- It conveys "technology" and "features" rather well through the radioactive nut in the middle,
- It's actually soft around the edges.
Where it falls down is that it the colour scheme is very high contrast.
Arthur, what do you think? You're good at these sorts of things.
- 07 Aug 2004
continued in TWikiBrand
- 07 Aug 2004
FWIW I don't see links, I see spanners: two spanners working on a bar turning a radioactive nut.
This doesn't mean that I don't like the logo though - I do.
Touchyfeelyness notwithstanding, I would rather see the new logo in than keep the robot.
IE a change to this outstanding, professional logo is better than no change, even if it
doesn't embody every concept of TWiki. Note that many of the best logos don't embody
anything. Nike for example...
- 07 Aug 2004
I like Crawfords idea on the handclasp.
The scouts use an "extended version" for carrying heavy loads (e.g. injured persons) - it is called a "fourhanded seat". I thought I would mention it here, it has something to it we might be inspired by.
- 07 Aug 2004
A "sharpened up" version of the above might look something like this? I guess this logo is so primitive (just a couble of bend lines) it might already be "taken" etc etc - of course we should try avoid nameclashes with the obvious. I haven't checked around.
I'm no artist either, so I don't have a clue on how to take this idea any further graphically. I'll leave it here for you to ponder at.
- 09 Aug 2004
Here's a brainstorm towards a more "humanized" logo:
- Logo variations:
- NOTE: Since there seems to be no interest in my logo ideas above, I've decided to use the basic idea for a logo for one of my sites. -- LynnwoodBrown - 13 Jun 2005
- 09 Aug 2004
Nice logo ideas posted here. I like all of them
-- as starting points. This is the wrong time to be deciding about this though. A brand, a logo, is not something to be done in the last few days before a release. For better or worse, the twiki robot has been the twiki wiki logo for more than five years. A little more time taken to update/revise/choose a new logo won't hurt.
I will note that a logo doesn't have to look "like" anything at all. Indeed the most widely used and recognised ones are so stylised as to be not much more than squiggles and strokes.
- 10 Aug 2004
I realised eventually that Steffen's reminded me of Wards from his wiki - quite a cool reference
- 10 Aug 2004
I completely disagree with "now is not the time to decide".
Now is exactly the time to decide. The decision process has been taking place over the last 2 years
. It is well considered. Even Peter appeared to be enthusiastic in his last words about the HighResolutionLogos
. Pretty much everyone has voted for their adoption.
There is no need to be so "precious" about the current logo, or to be overly cautious about changing it. There is very little to loose in changing (if anything) and lots to be gained.
The fact that other unconsidered options are emerging near the decision point is inevitable and not a problem. They are simply "nice ideas, too late this time".
There is no reason why this change as to be seen as permanent/unchangeable. Even if it only lasted till the next release, it would be a gain and not a loss. Having a logo associated with a release might even be a good thing.
Finally, I am vaguely aware of new legislation being mooted in the US that would make it a criminal offense to distribute or provide a mechansim for distributing someone else's copyright material (INDUCE Act?). Who in our game wants that hanging over us?
(Acutally, since I don't live in the US I don't care personally
- 11 Aug 2004
Very nicely put Martin. I've reconsidered my stance and retracted it.
- Thanks Matt - it's a pleasure to be in a community where people are willing to enter a debate and actually be influenced by it. I hope I am as open-minded when my turn comes. -- MartinGregory - 12 Aug 2004
- 11 Aug 2004
I would like to echo Martin's sentiment! My offering up a last-minute alternative logo was motivated by desparation that Cairo might go out with the old logo. I feel strongly that the Cairo distribution should go out with the HighResolutionLogos
as the primary
logo. Besides the copywrite issue, there has been consistent
feedback that the robot, whatever sentimental value it may have, does not
reflect well on the product. I have more than one personal experience of people never
getting past their initial impression from that logo. Months later, they refer to TWiki as "that toy robot thing" (and not
affectionately). The quality it seems best to convey is "rinky-dink." The robot logo might be included in the distribution with a historical note and
It also occurs to me now that in most cases, the logo will not be will not be displayed prominatly in the top banner anyway. Most sites will immediately replace this with their own banner. The more appropriate placement might be at the bottom of the PatternSkin
left sidebar with a typical, low-profile "powered by" display.
, let's send Cairo out with a complete new look - PatternSkin
& new logo! That will do more for adoption than just about anything else we can do - first impressions may not be everything but they can
make everything else moot.
- 11 Aug 2004
I don't know what went wrong with moving the attachments. They show up in the directory listing: http://twiki.org/p/pub/Codev/HighResolutionLogos/, but when you click on
4-hand.gif you get a 404.
Something with the server. Images show now properly.
- 11 Aug 2004
What has to actually be done to cause the change to happen?
Do we submit a bug request, then a core team person changes the logo in some directory somewhere, and that's it?
- 12 Aug 2004
FWIW I think SteffenPoulsen
's idea above is absolutely brilliant
- it is simple, expressive, has a ton of scope for "sexing up", animation, scaling etc. Here are some of the ideas it expresses to me:
- Mutual support
- Hands across the sea
- A platform (looks like tiles)
I don't recognise the logo, and if no-one else here does either, I would have to assume it is free to use. Does anyone know what steps would be expected of us to check the availability of the logo?
IMHO it is the best idea anyone
has had, and that includes the Teamwork logos.
I too support the stance put by LynnwoodBrown
- now is the time to change the logo, not after Cairo is already released.
I had a go at slightly plusher versions of Steffen's logo, at the 50x50 Arthur recommends in TWikiBrand
. See FriendshipLogos
- 12 Aug 2004
Just my two cents: Steffen's handclasp logo is excellent! Even though I admit that the "wrench" logo is very well done and looks good, there are valid concerns about it's lack of social emphasis. Steffen's handclasp has just that, and the similarity to Ward's logo -- as well as connotations of support and interlinking -- make it very useful and attractive. From a tech perspective, it's good because it's a simple graphic that can easily be adapted into nearly any size and context.
And yes, we do need a new logo. The twikibot is cute but odd and anachronistic.
- 04 Sep 2004